Society of Pope Leo XIII Reconciling with Rome
#11
Didn't he just recently curse a local bishop? If he wants reunification he has a strange way of demonstrationg it. However, if they do maneuver a reunification then all praise to God.
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#12
[Image: Is-it-just-fanta-sea.jpg]
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#13
(08-17-2012, 07:49 PM)Beardly Wrote: Well, there are a few other references to them on the internet, but they seem to be an entirely Brazilian phenomenon. The bishops were likely hastily consecrated, to provide for longevity. They also seem to be a couple of generations removed from the Church, as the bishops seem to trace their lineage to Carlos Duarte Costa.

It's actually quite brilliant. Go canonically irregular or schism, consecrate a ton of bishops and seek reunion. You flood the Church with orthodox bishops the express way  :LOL:
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#14
Nothing of this sort should surprise anything anymore.   First, this is not good for the Church.  Simply because we cannot look at these groups and consider them traditionalist Catholics in the same mold as Traditionalist ROMAN Catholics (just because they celebrate the Tridentine Mass?) and compare them, say, with the SSPX or FSSP, et al..  Second, they have been bred as true schismatics, with traditions and practices of their own making and design. 

It boggles the mind when we see these schismatic bishops spawning like rabbits!  The lineage of Carlos Duarte Costa alone is unbelievable in its sheer numbers.  Never mind if we even consider the lineages of Apb. Ngo Dinh Thuc, Sanchez-Camacho, the Patriotic Catholic Association in China, among others, whose bishops run into the hundreds, each and all claiming Apostolic succession, in a sense, a claim that cannot be denied but certainly questioned as suspicious.  But what about what it has done to the true Church divinely founded by Our Lord; another great wound to His Sacred Heart. 

As for the Costa lineage from which the present Bishop David Bell (Archbishop of London and Superior General of the Society of Leo XIII) claims to have descended, I checked and couldn't find his name.  So who consecrated him, should be our first valid question.  Is he truly a valid but illicit bishop?  What if he is not and seeks to be admitted in the Roman Church and get validated.  Me thinks his conscience must be bothering him.  There are a lot of "iffys."

Reading his bio regarding his ordination (the first being invalid because the "credentials" ordaining bishop, John Simmons, was found to be fictitious) and eventual consecration as bishop raises some red flags (to me at least).    "David Bell was consecrated to the Episcopate by His Beatitude, Most Reverend Dom Luis Fernando Castillo Mendez on the 13th June 2006 being the feast of St Anthony of Padua in the Patriarchal Cathedral Church of Our Lady & Miraculous Medal, Brasilia. Brazil at the age 36. Most Reverend Dom Luis Fernando Castillo Mendez was assisted by Co consecrators: Diocesan Bishop Olinto Ferreira Pinto Filho  and Co adjutor Bishop Josivaldo Pereira de Oliveria."

This is a partial list of the Luis Mendez Line, one the many Carlos Duarte Costa consecrations:
(from Terry Boyle's list)

Luis Fernando Castillo-Méndez
[b. in 1922; still living and still consecrating bishops]
.

SUMMARY
B. Luis Fernando Castillo-Méndez
....1) Stephen Meyer Corradi-Scarella
.........a) Albert A. Steer
..............I) John Robert Quinn
.........b) Emile Federico Rodriguez y Durand (Fairfield)
..............I) William R. Nesselrode
..............II) Robert Norton
..............III) Paul Christian G. W. Schultz, Jr.
..............IV) Michael Joseph Farrell
..............V) Patrick Callahan
..............VI) Bertil Alexander Mar Alexander Persson
..............VII) Karl Julius Barwin
..............VIII) George Augustus Stallings
..............IX) Alexander Ong Verzosa
.........c) Harold Lawrence Trott
..............I) Roy Benton Davis, Jr.
....2) Forest Ernest Barber
.........a) Francis Jerome Joachim Ladd
..............I) John P. Doerr
..............II) Don Bryant de Cordova (see below)
.........b) Seiji Yamauchi
..............I) Forest Ernest Barber (see above)
.........c) Bertil Alexander Persson
.........d) Edward Paul Raible
.........e) Harold James Donovan
..............I) Forest Ernest Barber (see above)
....3) Claude Roger Baron
........ a) Louis Francis Battaglio (see below)
.........b) Don Bryant de Cordova (see below)
.........c) Carlos E. Escobedo (see below)
....4) Patrick Michael Cronin
.........a) Donald W. Saint Peters
..............I) Michael Edward Coburn
.........b) Charles Ingram
.........c) Paul William Seese
..............I) Paul A. Diederich
..............II) Michael Edward Coburn
..............III) George Bussmann
..............IV) Mark Steven Shirey Shirilau
....5) Louis Francis Battaglio
....6) Don Bryant de Cordova
....7) Carlos E. Escobedo
....8) Juan Ignacio Cariaga y Cariaga
.........a) René Parra Somorrostro
..............I) Celso Mario Rosales y Fernes (see below)
.........b) Celso Mario Rosales y Fernes
....9) Frederick R. Aylward
.........a) Albert J. Nigro
..............I) William Arthur Bolinger (see below)
.........b) Joseph Smeekens
....10) Juan José Villegas
.........a) Joseph Hladney
..............I) Robert P. Daly
..............II) Raymond Francis Kelly
..............III) Carl G. Purvenas-Smith
..............IV) Michel Joseph Pugin (see below)
.........b) Donald J. Buttenbusch
..............I) Robert P. Daly
..............II) Raymond Francis Kelly
..............III) Joseph Johnson
..............IV) Lawrence Harms
.........c) Michel Joseph Pugin
..............I) Basil Isaaks
..............II) Robert P. Daly
..............III) Raymond Francis Kelly
..............IV) Carl G. Purvenas-Smith
.........d) William Arthur Bolinger
..............I) Christopher W. Fitzpatrick
....11) Harold Norwood
.........a) John Christopher Simmons
..............I) Daniel Kanyiles
..............II) Thomas Joseph-Francis Patrick Sebastian
..............III) Michael George Charles
....12) Austin Randolph Adler
....13) Randolph Whitcomb Sly
....14) Richard W. Lipka
....15) Philip Charles Zampino
....16) Frederick G. Fick

David Bell's name is not here.

Never mind that, but here is an "outlandish" claim made in the Society's website: 
Quote:Most Reverend Dom. David Bell has con celebrated Mass at St Peters “Vatican” with His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI, His Eminence Cardinal Bertone, Cardinal Diswiz and many Roman Catholic Bishops Vatican II and many Orthodox priests and bishops in their respective Cathedrals / Churches in their respective countries.
 

So he is novus ordo also, as well as an Orthodox Divine Liturgy celebrant? And his line has spawned 83 bishops already?   Meanwhile, the SSPX is out in left field hoping to catch a fly ball and end the inning.
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#15
Quote:So he is novus ordo also, as well as an Orthodox Divine Liturgy celebrant? And his line has spawned 83 bishops already?  Meanwhile, the SSPX is out in left field hoping to catch a fly ball and end the inning.

Doesn't make sense, I know Vince.
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#16
A vagant bishop who wants to act as if he is important.
The brazilian branch will certainly not regularize as their business model is luring away Catholics by "marrying" divorcees, they'd have to give that up.
Vatican Insider had an article on them a few weeks ago.
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#17
(08-18-2012, 05:40 AM)Vincentius Wrote: Never mind that, but here is an "outlandish" claim made in the Society's website: 
Quote:Most Reverend Dom. David Bell has con celebrated Mass at St Peters “Vatican” with His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI, His Eminence Cardinal Bertone, Cardinal Diswiz and many Roman Catholic Bishops Vatican II and many Orthodox priests and bishops in their respective Cathedrals / Churches in their respective countries.
 
Perhaps he is concelebrating secretly from the pews without their knowledge??  Why do they put "Vatican" in quotes, as if they doubt its authenticity, if their bishops are concelebrating there?  The whole thing smacks of on Onion article, if you ask me.
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#18
What? How have we never heard of these people before? Is this an August fool's joke?

If I'm reading this right, they trace their orders back to a Cardinal Duartes Costa, who founded his own somewhat more liberal spinoff church (divorce allowed, no celibacy), much like the Old Catholics or Polish Catholics, but in Brazil.
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#19
This all whiffs of invalidity.
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#20
TFP, Arautos, and now this.

20th Century Catholicism was very strange in Brazil. Well,  the other two I mentioned don't seem so weird in comparison.
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