Pussy riot jailed: Vladimir Putin faces international outcry
#41
Quote: Oh, I see.  Our Lady said that if Russia is not consecrated, she will continue to spread her errors until a specific point in time, when she will cease to spread her errors?  Gotcha.
So the question then becomes, if Russia is no longer spreading her errors, what's the point of doing the magical consecration?  I mean, she's pretty well contained it would seem and has a FE-friendly leader and all so...yeah, what's the point again?

Let's review the actual words first:
Quote:     When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that He is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions against the Church and against the Holy Father.

            To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of Reparation on the First Saturdays. If My requests are heeded, Russia will be converted and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions against the Church. The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated.1

In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to Me, and she will be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world.
The consecration was never done.  The errors WERE spread, and an ex-KGB agent dropped dime on all of it in the early eighties.  Russia could still be spreading errors.  I don't know.  Their mafia certainly is corrupting many countries and companies.  My point is that these errors have already completely infected the society, government and Church.

Now what about these error?  Well, they will (are) causing persecutions against the Church, will lead to wars, and the annihilation of some nations (coming soon).  Take a look around.  Kind of prophetic I'd say.  In "the end" (sounds ominous) the Pope will conduct the consecration, Russia will be converted, and peace will return.

Putting it all together, since the errors HAVE spread, and we have killed up to 100 million babies, infested the Church with sodomites (thanks commie Bella Dodd), and brought about the insanity known as Vatican II (and based on what Pope Pius XII wrote while he was a cardinal, probably warned about in the LETTER from Sr. Lucia), I doubt the consecration happens until God has turned a large part of the world into a cinder, and completely rubbed the nose of the Pope in his disobedience.  Well, according to the vision released, he gets killed after Rome is leveled.

Quotes to ponder:
Quote:[quote] “Russia will be the instrument of chastisement chosen by Heaven to punish the whole world if we do not beforehand obtain the conversion of that poor nation ...”

"They did not wish to heed My request! ... Like the King of France, they will repent of it, and they will do it, but it will be late. Russia will already have spread its errors in the world ...”  (edit: easier to read)

and JPII the Great, who read the LETTER:
"We must prepare ourselves to suffer great trials before long, such as will demand of us a disposition to give up even life, and a total dedication to Christ and for Christ … With your and my prayer it is possible to mitigate this tribulation, but it is no longer possible to avert it, because only thus can the Church be effectively renewed. How many times has the renewal of the Church sprung from blood! This time, too, it will not be otherwise."
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#42
CP Wrote:You may be against rabid Fatimists, but is the mocking really necessary? These are really serious issues, and shouldn't you be a little bit more respectful, at least out of love for the Mother of God?
I don't know mate.  Fisheaters wouldn't be the same.  At least he is asking some questions.  Others can read the evidence and decide.
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#43
(08-19-2012, 01:25 AM)James02 Wrote:
Quote: Oh, I see.  Our Lady said that if Russia is not consecrated, she will continue to spread her errors until a specific point in time, when she will cease to spread her errors?  Gotcha.
So the question then becomes, if Russia is no longer spreading her errors, what's the point of doing the magical consecration?  I mean, she's pretty well contained it would seem and has a FE-friendly leader and all so...yeah, what's the point again?

Let's review the actual words first:
Quote:     When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that He is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions against the Church and against the Holy Father.

            To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of Reparation on the First Saturdays. If My requests are heeded, Russia will be converted and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions against the Church. The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated.1

In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to Me, and she will be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world.
The consecration was never done.  The errors WERE spread, and an ex-KGB agent dropped dime on all of it in the early eighties.  Russia could still be spreading errors.  I don't know.  Their mafia certainly is corrupting many countries and companies.  My point is that these errors have already completely infected the society, government and Church.

Now what about these error?  Well, they will (are) causing persecutions against the Church, will lead to wars, and the annihilation of some nations (coming soon).  Take a look around.  Kind of prophetic I'd say.  In "the end" (sounds ominous) the Pope will conduct the consecration, Russia will be converted, and peace will return.

Putting it all together, since the errors HAVE spread, and we have killed up to 100 million babies, infested the Church with sodomites (thanks commie Bella Dodd), and brought about the insanity known as Vatican II (and based on what Pope Pius XII wrote while he was a cardinal, probably warned about in the LETTER from Sr. Lucia), I doubt the consecration happens until God has turned a large part of the world into a cinder, and completely rubbed the nose of the Pope in his disobedience.  Well, according to the vision released, he gets killed after Rome is leveled.

Quotes to ponder:
Quote:
Quote: “Russia will be the instrument of chastisement chosen by Heaven to punish the whole world if we do not beforehand obtain the conversion of that poor nation ...”

"They did not wish to heed My request! ... Like the King of France, they will repent of it, and they will do it, but it will be late. Russia will already have spread its errors in the world ...”  (edit: easier to read)

and JPII the Great, who read the LETTER:
"We must prepare ourselves to suffer great trials before long, such as will demand of us a disposition to give up even life, and a total dedication to Christ and for Christ … With your and my prayer it is possible to mitigate this tribulation, but it is no longer possible to avert it, because only thus can the Church be effectively renewed. How many times has the renewal of the Church sprung from blood! This time, too, it will not be otherwise."

Ah yes.  The "unknown light in the sky" prophecy, which wasn't revealed publicly until some 10 years after said light made an appearance.  Interesting. 

And it is a pity about how disobedient the pope has been.  Horribly and scandalously disobedient.  But I'll admit I've been rather disobedient to God and his holy Mother as well.  Will you admit the same, James?  Because it seems to me most Fatimaniacs portray themselves as spending a good 15 hours a day kneeling on broken glass praying the rosary and subsisting on a raw potato or two each week.  But maybe you're different?  Maybe you'll admit that you need to have your nose rubbed in your disobedience as well, right alongside me and the pope?  Can you drink from that chalice James?  Can any Fatimaniac?
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#44
Ha ha.  The Lord has whipped my @$$ more than you could ever imagine.  I already "drank from the chalice", and yes, I deserved it.  And hopefully it was enough to save me.  A sinner I'll always be, a traitorous heretic, by the Grace of God, may I never be.

As far as "maniac", all I'm doing is quoting the actual words, then drawing what appear to be logical conclusions.  But I'm no prophet, so I might be wrong.
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#45
(08-19-2012, 01:47 AM)DrBombay Wrote: And it is a pity about how disobedient the pope has been.  Horribly and scandalously disobedient.  But I'll admit I've been rather disobedient to God and his holy Mother as well.  Will you admit the same, James?  Because it seems to me most Fatimaniacs portray themselves as spending a good 15 hours a day kneeling on broken glass praying the rosary and subsisting on a raw potato or two each week.  But maybe you're different?  Maybe you'll admit that you need to have your nose rubbed in your disobedience as well, right alongside me and the pope?  Can you drink from that chalice James?  Can any Fatimaniac?

In all sincerity, Doc, why are you so angry?  It's not just your assertions but the way that you assert them.  You may be a trad but the anger that you have for traditionalism as a movement and trads as a group always throws me for a loop.

You're often so condescending with people who are sincerely trying to discuss something with you.  I don't fall under this list, I know.  I'm an ass right back to you, and most of the time I shouldn't be.  Given that, I don't take it personally when you dish it back.  In fact, in some ways I really appreciate it.

But most people genuinely like you as a poster and are just trying to discuss something with you.  We're all trying to be good Catholics, man.  I'll admit that there are all sorts of problems with trad Catholics, but being facetious about it doesn't seem like a tactic that will help change the situation.  In fact, it seems like it just feeds right back into the negative connotations associated with traditionalists.
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#46
By the way, I don't judge the inward man of the Pope in this matter, or frankly any matter.  Actually, I judge no one.  Who knows, maybe the KGB threatened a nuke war if they even sniffed a coming consecration?  Maybe they dropped a file with 500 pictures of various cardinals and bishops with little boys on his desk.  God will judge the Pope, thankfully I don't have to.

What we do know (which you are free to disbelieve) is the Lord compared the Pope to the disobedient French King who got his head chopped off for disobedience.
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#47
Well Walty, if he keeps it up, we'll bring per_passionem_eius into this thread and assault him with niceness.  I think she rather enjoys being nice to him.
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#48
(08-19-2012, 02:11 AM)Walty Wrote:
(08-19-2012, 01:47 AM)DrBombay Wrote: And it is a pity about how disobedient the pope has been.  Horribly and scandalously disobedient.  But I'll admit I've been rather disobedient to God and his holy Mother as well.  Will you admit the same, James?  Because it seems to me most Fatimaniacs portray themselves as spending a good 15 hours a day kneeling on broken glass praying the rosary and subsisting on a raw potato or two each week.  But maybe you're different?  Maybe you'll admit that you need to have your nose rubbed in your disobedience as well, right alongside me and the pope?  Can you drink from that chalice James?  Can any Fatimaniac?

In all sincerity, Doc, why are you so angry?  It's not just your assertions but the way that you assert them.  You may be a trad but the anger that you have for traditionalism as a movement and trads as a group always throws me for a loop.

You're often so condescending with people who are sincerely trying to discuss something with you.  I don't fall under this list, I know.  I'm an ass right back to you, and most of the time I shouldn't be.  Given that, I don't take it personally when you dish it back.  In fact, in some ways I really appreciate it.

But most people genuinely like you as a poster and are just trying to discuss something with you.  We're all trying to be good Catholics, man.  I'll admit that there are all sorts of problems with trad Catholics, but being facetious about it doesn't seem like a tactic that will help change the situation.  In fact, it seems like it just feeds right back into the negative connotations associated with traditionalists.

I don't like hypocrisy.  For example, there are people here who will spend pages and pages copying and pasting from the Dimond Bros. or Traditio, trying to prove the the NO is an invalid Mass.  Then they'll go on another thread and feign outrage at Communion in the Hand.  I'm sorry, but if the NO is invalid then what people are receiving in their hand is just bread, so shut your pie hole.  If people want to believe the NO is invalid, be my guest.  Just don't pretend to be outraged by "liturgical abuses" at an invalid liturgy.  Maybe I'm odd, but I don't spend a lot of time worried about what Lutherans do at their services, whatever they call them.  You'd think the radtrads around here would feel the same about the NO, but it's like they have an obsession.  They can't be happy with their own little TLM, they have to dump on the NO because....well, I have no idea.  

As I said, I haven't met anyone recently that genuinely wants to discuss anything around here.  I've had quite a few PMs from people with questions or concerns, but they won't engage me publicly.  One even decided he couldn't stand the SSPX cognitive dissonance so he decided to join the Old Catholics.  I'd rather rub Tabasco sauce in my eyeballs than join the Old Catholics, but this is what double speak leads to.

Sarcasm isn't probably the best way to approach these questions, I'll admit that.  But sometimes it can be an effective way of pointing out how absurd certain positions are.  Granted it tends to get people's backs up and makes them defensive, but even if some of these questions are asked politely, people are going to get defensive.  People don't want to deal with these kinds of things, it makes them uncomfortable.  I get that.  It even does that to trad priests in real life.  I've tried and without sarcasm too.  It's nearly impossible to get an articulate, well-reasoned answer.  "Have faith" is always the final, fall-back answer and I'm weary of it.  Not that I have anything against faith, but God gave us a brain for a reason I would think.  
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#49
(08-19-2012, 02:43 AM)DrBombay Wrote:
(08-19-2012, 02:11 AM)Walty Wrote:
(08-19-2012, 01:47 AM)DrBombay Wrote: And it is a pity about how disobedient the pope has been.  Horribly and scandalously disobedient.  But I'll admit I've been rather disobedient to God and his holy Mother as well.  Will you admit the same, James?  Because it seems to me most Fatimaniacs portray themselves as spending a good 15 hours a day kneeling on broken glass praying the rosary and subsisting on a raw potato or two each week.  But maybe you're different?  Maybe you'll admit that you need to have your nose rubbed in your disobedience as well, right alongside me and the pope?  Can you drink from that chalice James?  Can any Fatimaniac?

In all sincerity, Doc, why are you so angry?  It's not just your assertions but the way that you assert them.  You may be a trad but the anger that you have for traditionalism as a movement and trads as a group always throws me for a loop.

You're often so condescending with people who are sincerely trying to discuss something with you.  I don't fall under this list, I know.  I'm an ass right back to you, and most of the time I shouldn't be.  Given that, I don't take it personally when you dish it back.  In fact, in some ways I really appreciate it.

But most people genuinely like you as a poster and are just trying to discuss something with you.  We're all trying to be good Catholics, man.  I'll admit that there are all sorts of problems with trad Catholics, but being facetious about it doesn't seem like a tactic that will help change the situation.  In fact, it seems like it just feeds right back into the negative connotations associated with traditionalists.

I don't like hypocrisy.  For example, there are people here who will spend pages and pages copying and pasting from the Dimond Bros. or Traditio, trying to prove the the NO is an invalid Mass.  Then they'll go on another thread and feign outrage at Communion in the Hand.  I'm sorry, but if the NO is invalid then what people are receiving in their hand is just bread, so shut your pie hole.  If people want to believe the NO is invalid, be my guest.  Just don't pretend to be outraged by "liturgical abuses" at an invalid liturgy.  Maybe I'm odd, but I don't spend a lot of time worried about what Lutherans do at their services, whatever they call them.  You'd think the radtrads around here would feel the same about the NO, but it's like they have an obsession.  They can't be happy with their own little TLM, they have to dump on the NO because....well, I have no idea.  

As I said, I haven't met anyone recently that genuinely wants to discuss anything around here.  I've had quite a few PMs from people with questions or concerns, but they won't engage me publicly.  One even decided he couldn't stand the SSPX cognitive dissonance so he decided to join the Old Catholics.  I'd rather rub Tabasco sauce in my eyeballs than join the Old Catholics, but this is what double speak leads to.

Sarcasm isn't probably the best way to approach these questions, I'll admit that.  But sometimes it can be an effective way of pointing out how absurd certain positions are.  Granted it tends to get people's backs up and makes them defensive, but even if some of these questions are asked politely, people are going to get defensive.  People don't want to deal with these kinds of things, it makes them uncomfortable.  I get that.  It even does that to trad priests in real life.  I've tried and without sarcasm too.  It's nearly impossible to get an articulate, well-reasoned answer.  "Have faith" is always the final, fall-back answer and I'm weary of it.  Not that I have anything against faith, but God gave us a brain for a reason I would think.  

I guess I'm missing this here.  Maybe we spend our time on a lot of different threads.  It's astonishing to me that someone would jump from the SSPX to the Old Catholics.

I honesty feel like most of the people on FE (and most trads I meet) are decent, genuine people.  They try to be Catholic and make sense of this very weird and very confusing situation.  And I genuinely feel like there are a lot of posters here who are intelligent, somber, and focused. 

In fact, James is one of them.  I don't see him being hypocritical, whiney, phoney, etc.  And yet whatever you're discussing with him has really hit a nerve.

I mean, on one hand it seems like you're upset with how crabby trads are, but your response to just be even more crabby.  And I get that response.  I feel that way too.

Maybe I'm being overdramatic but my point is this: I think you add a lot to the forum.  You're sharp.  You call a spade a spade.  You don't often get bogged down in theory but actually help pull things back into focus.  Unfortunately, however, traditionalism and Catholicism in general have seemed to make you even more crabby lately than you already normally are.  It's almost as if you intellectually assent to traditionalism but are sick of being a trad.

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#50
(08-19-2012, 02:59 AM)Walty Wrote:
(08-19-2012, 02:43 AM)DrBombay Wrote:
(08-19-2012, 02:11 AM)Walty Wrote:
(08-19-2012, 01:47 AM)DrBombay Wrote: And it is a pity about how disobedient the pope has been.  Horribly and scandalously disobedient.  But I'll admit I've been rather disobedient to God and his holy Mother as well.  Will you admit the same, James?  Because it seems to me most Fatimaniacs portray themselves as spending a good 15 hours a day kneeling on broken glass praying the rosary and subsisting on a raw potato or two each week.  But maybe you're different?  Maybe you'll admit that you need to have your nose rubbed in your disobedience as well, right alongside me and the pope?  Can you drink from that chalice James?  Can any Fatimaniac?

In all sincerity, Doc, why are you so angry?  It's not just your assertions but the way that you assert them.  You may be a trad but the anger that you have for traditionalism as a movement and trads as a group always throws me for a loop.

You're often so condescending with people who are sincerely trying to discuss something with you.  I don't fall under this list, I know.  I'm an ass right back to you, and most of the time I shouldn't be.  Given that, I don't take it personally when you dish it back.  In fact, in some ways I really appreciate it.

But most people genuinely like you as a poster and are just trying to discuss something with you.  We're all trying to be good Catholics, man.  I'll admit that there are all sorts of problems with trad Catholics, but being facetious about it doesn't seem like a tactic that will help change the situation.  In fact, it seems like it just feeds right back into the negative connotations associated with traditionalists.

I don't like hypocrisy.  For example, there are people here who will spend pages and pages copying and pasting from the Dimond Bros. or Traditio, trying to prove the the NO is an invalid Mass.  Then they'll go on another thread and feign outrage at Communion in the Hand.  I'm sorry, but if the NO is invalid then what people are receiving in their hand is just bread, so shut your pie hole.  If people want to believe the NO is invalid, be my guest.  Just don't pretend to be outraged by "liturgical abuses" at an invalid liturgy.  Maybe I'm odd, but I don't spend a lot of time worried about what Lutherans do at their services, whatever they call them.  You'd think the radtrads around here would feel the same about the NO, but it's like they have an obsession.  They can't be happy with their own little TLM, they have to dump on the NO because....well, I have no idea.  

As I said, I haven't met anyone recently that genuinely wants to discuss anything around here.  I've had quite a few PMs from people with questions or concerns, but they won't engage me publicly.  One even decided he couldn't stand the SSPX cognitive dissonance so he decided to join the Old Catholics.  I'd rather rub Tabasco sauce in my eyeballs than join the Old Catholics, but this is what double speak leads to.

Sarcasm isn't probably the best way to approach these questions, I'll admit that.  But sometimes it can be an effective way of pointing out how absurd certain positions are.  Granted it tends to get people's backs up and makes them defensive, but even if some of these questions are asked politely, people are going to get defensive.  People don't want to deal with these kinds of things, it makes them uncomfortable.  I get that.  It even does that to trad priests in real life.  I've tried and without sarcasm too.  It's nearly impossible to get an articulate, well-reasoned answer.  "Have faith" is always the final, fall-back answer and I'm weary of it.  Not that I have anything against faith, but God gave us a brain for a reason I would think.  

I guess I'm missing this here.  Maybe we spend our time on a lot of different threads.  It's astonishing to me that someone would jump from the SSPX to the Old Catholics.

I honesty feel like most of the people on FE (and most trads I meet) are decent, genuine people.  They try to be Catholic and make sense of this very weird and very confusing situation.  And I genuinely feel like there are a lot of posters here who are intelligent, somber, and focused. 

In fact, James is one of them.  I don't see him being hypocritical, whiney, phoney, etc.  And yet whatever you're discussing with him has really hit a nerve.

I mean, on one hand it seems like you're upset with how crabby trads are, but your response to just be even more crabby.  And I get that response.  I feel that way too.

Maybe I'm being overdramatic but my point is this: I think you add a lot to the forum.  You're sharp.  You call a spade a spade.  You don't often get bogged down in theory but actually help pull things back into focus.  Unfortunately, however, traditionalism and Catholicism in general have seemed to make you even more crabby lately than you already normally are.  It's almost as if you intellectually assent to traditionalism but are sick of being a trad.

I'm not upset with crabby trads.  Most of the people on FE are decent, they just aren't capable, apparently, of answering pointed questions from other trads.  Prots, neo-Cats and atheists, sure.  But it's like there's a wall built up in their brain and they are unable to process anything that challenges the trad status quo.  Wait, you mean there might be someone other than a neo-Cat questioning what we do and believe?  And they just shut down.

Fatima is another animal entirely.  There are holes in that you could drive several large trucks through, mostly the post-apparition apparitions but I'm also suspicious of all the anti-Russia stuff.  I mean, it could've been written by a CIA agent at the height of the Cold War.  Very convenient. 

It's not that I'm sick of being trad, I'm just sick of being.  I don't have a death wish and I'm not suicidal, I just wouldn't mind not waking up one day, if that makes sense.  I wouldn't even call it acedia or depression, it's more like ennui.  Like people outside in freezing weather who know they'll die of hypothermia soon and they feel like lying down and going to sleep.  I'm tired of having all these stupid questions in my head.  I'd say I'm over thinking everything, but thinking has never been one of my strengths.
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