Oy... I hate to do this!
#11
(08-25-2012, 11:14 PM)DrBombay Wrote:
(08-25-2012, 11:12 PM)Petertherock Wrote: The smoke of Satan isn't merely in the Church...it's running the Church.

Indeed.  Nothing is more smoky than a German.  They reek of smoke.

The more I see the more I believe the Pope is just a figure head. He's not really in charge. It's all the apostates that surround him. At least I pray this is what it is...otherwise...the Pope is at the very least derelict of his duty or at worse, he is complicit in these scandals. How can the Pope not know about these things...there has been numerous very public scandals that have been out there and yet no one has been disciplined. I want to give the Holy Father the benefit of the doubt...but he can't keep his head buried in the sand either.

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#12
you mean like Windswept House style figurehead?
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#13
(08-25-2012, 11:21 PM)Miles Christi Wrote: you mean like Windswept House style figurehead?

Never read the book...but most likely but I couldn't answer that since I don't know  :LOL:
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#14
PtR, I don't think it's right to say that "no one" has been disciplined. But there hasn't been enough, surely.

Assuming that the Pope actually hears of this (do you have his email address? I don't. Anyway, I'm sure that people read his mail for him and give him summaries), which is by no means a given, what is the priority? What I mean is, anything he does requires lots of meetings and analysis. That's because the Pope chooses not to put himself in a position of acting rashly. What if it's not what it looks like? I know, it surely is... but there are forms to be followed. An investigation has to be opened, people have to have a chance to respond to the findings, etc.

I don't know that this is the optimal way. If I were Pope (which would last like 2 days before I would be murdered), I would be a Papal Bull in the china shop. I would wreck shit like wrecking shit was going out of style. But I cannot say with 100% certainty that it would work. What if the local "bishop's conference" (always slated for a wrecking) disobeyed? What, practically speaking, could I do about it?

This isn't some Dan Brown novel where the Pope has a bunch of giant albino ninjas he can sent out to delete anybody who steps out of line. This is the real world, where the Vatican doesn't actually have all that much practical power.

Think of it this way:
Pope: "This priest is defrocked for offering a Masonic Mass."
Brazilian Bishop (BB): "No he's not, I authorized it."
Pope: "Well then you're removed from your post."
BB: "No I'm not. I run the church in Brazil."
Pope: "OK. You're defrocked too then. Pack your bags, chumpus."
BB: "I don't think I will. I think we Brazilian bishops will just continue to own all this property, all these assets, and everything else around here."
Pope: "Well then you're all fired. And Brazil is under Interdict until you relinquish the assets. I'll send some boys down to sign all the papers."
BB: "Good luck getting them through customs. We're now the National Church of Brazil and we hereby legitimize socialism, Masonry, abortion and gay marriage."
Pope: "You can't do that."
BB: "Just did."
Pope: "Well then I'll have you thrown out!"
BB: "By who?"
Pope: "The Brazilian government."
BB: "Oh, you mean all those Freemasons and socialists? I don't think they're going to do what you say."

I mean, isn't that more or less how it would go, *if* there were a recalcitrant group of bishops? I'm not saying the Brazilian bishops are, or that the local ordinary authorized this Mass, but I'm just saying that I don't know what the Pope could actually do. If someone knows what he could do, I'd be interested to hear it.

So if the Pope can't really take direct action, what's the alternative? It kicks down into the CDF, CDW, etc. and takes about 8 years to trickle through the bureaucracy before something can be concretely done about it. I suppose.
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#15
(08-25-2012, 11:25 PM)Petertherock Wrote:
(08-25-2012, 11:21 PM)Miles Christi Wrote: you mean like Windswept House style figurehead?

Never read the book...but most likely but I couldn't answer that since I don't know  :LOL:
More like the conciliar church is uses Catholic doctrine as guidelines and not as rules to abide by.
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#16
(08-25-2012, 06:49 PM)Hawaii Five-0 Wrote: Charley is inside the wire!   :O
Charlie breached the perimeter 50 years ago.
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#17
(08-26-2012, 12:47 AM)Adeodatus01 Wrote: PtR, I don't think it's right to say that "no one" has been disciplined. But there hasn't been enough, surely.

Assuming that the Pope actually hears of this (do you have his email address? I don't. Anyway, I'm sure that people read his mail for him and give him summaries), which is by no means a given, what is the priority? What I mean is, anything he does requires lots of meetings and analysis. That's because the Pope chooses not to put himself in a position of acting rashly. What if it's not what it looks like? I know, it surely is... but there are forms to be followed. An investigation has to be opened, people have to have a chance to respond to the findings, etc.

I don't know that this is the optimal way. If I were Pope (which would last like 2 days before I would be murdered), I would be a Papal Bull in the china shop. I would wreck shit like wrecking shit was going out of style. But I cannot say with 100% certainty that it would work. What if the local "bishop's conference" (always slated for a wrecking) disobeyed? What, practically speaking, could I do about it?

This isn't some Dan Brown novel where the Pope has a bunch of giant albino ninjas he can sent out to delete anybody who steps out of line. This is the real world, where the Vatican doesn't actually have all that much practical power.

Think of it this way:
Pope: "This priest is defrocked for offering a Masonic Mass."
Brazilian Bishop (BB): "No he's not, I authorized it."
Pope: "Well then you're removed from your post."
BB: "No I'm not. I run the church in Brazil."
Pope: "OK. You're defrocked too then. Pack your bags, chumpus."
BB: "I don't think I will. I think we Brazilian bishops will just continue to own all this property, all these assets, and everything else around here."
Pope: "Well then you're all fired. And Brazil is under Interdict until you relinquish the assets. I'll send some boys down to sign all the papers."
BB: "Good luck getting them through customs. We're now the National Church of Brazil and we hereby legitimize socialism, Masonry, abortion and gay marriage."
Pope: "You can't do that."
BB: "Just did."
Pope: "Well then I'll have you thrown out!"
BB: "By who?"
Pope: "The Brazilian government."
BB: "Oh, you mean all those Freemasons and socialists? I don't think they're going to do what you say."

I mean, isn't that more or less how it would go, *if* there were a recalcitrant group of bishops? I'm not saying the Brazilian bishops are, or that the local ordinary authorized this Mass, but I'm just saying that I don't know what the Pope could actually do. If someone knows what he could do, I'd be interested to hear it.

So if the Pope can't really take direct action, what's the alternative? It kicks down into the CDF, CDW, etc. and takes about 8 years to trickle through the bureaucracy before something can be concretely done about it. I suppose.

Radtrad doesn't want to hear you talk sense.  Radtrad just knows that the pope can solve everything with one stroke of his pen but because he's a modernist he refuses to do so! Radtrad knows the pope has absolute power, he just won't exercise it!  If Radtrad can exercise absolute power in the World of Warcraft, then the pope can too.
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#18
Did anybody else notice that those guys' aprons have the Gmail logo on them?
[Image: gmail-logo.jpg]
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#19
(08-26-2012, 12:54 AM)DrBombay Wrote:
(08-26-2012, 12:47 AM)Adeodatus01 Wrote: PtR, I don't think it's right to say that "no one" has been disciplined. But there hasn't been enough, surely.

Assuming that the Pope actually hears of this (do you have his email address? I don't. Anyway, I'm sure that people read his mail for him and give him summaries), which is by no means a given, what is the priority? What I mean is, anything he does requires lots of meetings and analysis. That's because the Pope chooses not to put himself in a position of acting rashly. What if it's not what it looks like? I know, it surely is... but there are forms to be followed. An investigation has to be opened, people have to have a chance to respond to the findings, etc.

I don't know that this is the optimal way. If I were Pope (which would last like 2 days before I would be murdered), I would be a Papal Bull in the china shop. I would wreck shit like wrecking shit was going out of style. But I cannot say with 100% certainty that it would work. What if the local "bishop's conference" (always slated for a wrecking) disobeyed? What, practically speaking, could I do about it?

This isn't some Dan Brown novel where the Pope has a bunch of giant albino ninjas he can sent out to delete anybody who steps out of line. This is the real world, where the Vatican doesn't actually have all that much practical power.

Think of it this way:
Pope: "This priest is defrocked for offering a Masonic Mass."
Brazilian Bishop (BB): "No he's not, I authorized it."
Pope: "Well then you're removed from your post."
BB: "No I'm not. I run the church in Brazil."
Pope: "OK. You're defrocked too then. Pack your bags, chumpus."
BB: "I don't think I will. I think we Brazilian bishops will just continue to own all this property, all these assets, and everything else around here."
Pope: "Well then you're all fired. And Brazil is under Interdict until you relinquish the assets. I'll send some boys down to sign all the papers."
BB: "Good luck getting them through customs. We're now the National Church of Brazil and we hereby legitimize socialism, Masonry, abortion and gay marriage."
Pope: "You can't do that."
BB: "Just did."
Pope: "Well then I'll have you thrown out!"
BB: "By who?"
Pope: "The Brazilian government."
BB: "Oh, you mean all those Freemasons and socialists? I don't think they're going to do what you say."

I mean, isn't that more or less how it would go, *if* there were a recalcitrant group of bishops? I'm not saying the Brazilian bishops are, or that the local ordinary authorized this Mass, but I'm just saying that I don't know what the Pope could actually do. If someone knows what he could do, I'd be interested to hear it.

So if the Pope can't really take direct action, what's the alternative? It kicks down into the CDF, CDW, etc. and takes about 8 years to trickle through the bureaucracy before something can be concretely done about it. I suppose.

Radtrad doesn't want to hear you talk sense.  Radtrad just knows that the pope can solve everything with one stroke of his pen but because he's a modernist he refuses to do so! Radtrad knows the pope has absolute power, he just won't exercise it!  If Radtrad can exercise absolute power in the World of Warcraft, then the pope can too.

I would be more inclined to agree with you if Paul VI, John Paul II, and now Benedict XVI didn't flex their muscles with little ol Marcel Lefebvre, his seminary in Switzerland, and the four bishops he consecrated. Just sayin'  :tiphat:
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#20
People should ask themselves if the validity of this mass makes it worth attending.

Also, nice catch Charlesh.
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Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
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