Liturgical abuse before Vatican II
#21
I can read Latin pretty quickly, and as Tim said, just saying the prayers, one after another, very quickly, even mumbling a bit, no pauses, all sitting in once place, will take over 7 minutes.
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#22
Here's the CAF  line;

In all charity, you might not be old enough to have attended the seven-minute (or shorter) TLM some priests could exectue on a Sunday morning. They were about as reverent as the morning chow line in boot camp. They were not limited to the low Masses, but also high Masses. If some priests could have gotten the communicants to open their mouths wider, I am almost positve the Sacred Host would have gone sailing like a frisbee into mouths. The dialogue between the priest and server sounded like that guy who does the super-speeded voice on commercials. I am not trying to be disrespectful. I am merely stating the truth. This could happen again, nothing to prevent it from happening again.

Okay he asserts that a seven minute Mass is the truth, and that is Abuse. Then he warns this could happen again. How ? Simple if the TLM becomes the only Mass said in the dioceses. Because if it does the trad movement will be outposts and the Diocesan Churches will be full and we"ll return to lots of Low Masses at a half hour.

He opines it was like a chow line, and no proof. He opines it was High Masses too, and no proof. The line about frisbees is certainly funny but I ask really ?
Where's the real facts and criticism ?

tim
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#23
I have said this before, but in Fr Malachi Martins book "Hostage to the Devil" one of the chapters deals wih a possesed priest in the early 60's who would take upwards of half an hour for the "Hanc Igitur" [struggling with the devil], and invalidated the Mass by saying, loud enough for the server to hear at the Consecration: "For this is my tombstone, this is my sexuality" instead of For this is my Body For this is My Blood..

I would call this an abuse.
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#24
We had a priest we called "Chet the Jet" because of his swiftness.
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#25
I've been to 20 minute NO Masses, where is the outcry about that?



There is no doubt that there were Mass abuses pre Vat II. We are humans and weak, it's not like things were perfect before 1960. If they were so perfect, we would never have had the results of the 60s. Why did the Secret remain hidden and Vat II happen? Lack of faith, lack of courage of those in charge, the disease of human respect, all equalling a lack of cooperation with sanctifying grace. But abuse was not the case in general, and the  little people in the pews had a chance of reverence, a chance of connecting to the Divine through worshiping God the best way possible. They got to see what the martyrs died for, and know that they were reciting the same prayers that the saints did for centuries.

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#26
I don't want anyone to think I'm painting a picture of the Perfect Church prior to Vatican II in the Holy Golden Age of the Fifties in the Church. We were sinners, I and all the other boys and those guys were altar boys, glamorized world war ii, and loved get Funerals and Weddings for the moola, too.But put on your Catholic Glasses and look at the data and see that world was almost violence free as well as other sins, then contrast now, and with your glasses firmly in place understand the TLM was everywhere. This means Sanctifying Grace was sent out into the hinterlands of America, and Christ's peace prevailed, not so today.

tim
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#27
Tim's last post is a good apologia here, particularly the last part concerning the prevailing of graces through the TLM.  Once the 60's really started to get going, the faucet was turned down to a trickle.

Joe
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#28
I'd take a "7 minute Mass" over a polka or clown Mass.

#justsaying
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#29
That's the point, Joe. I'm one of them know it by it's fruits guy. Engineers can accurately measure output, and we are trained observers of systems. I in my capacity had to predict failure where when and how. No one seems to see the effects nor see the better from before. Put this one in your hopper and spin it around. The TLM then and now are flled with sinners that confess. The New Mass is filled with those that hide their contraception. Measure the output.

tim
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#30
(08-27-2012, 03:01 PM)CollegeCatholic Wrote: I'd take a "7 minute Mass" over a polka or clown Mass.

#justsaying

#fasho
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