Why did the Kennedys become bad Catholics?
As a sort of Ironic twist imagine a race for the presidency today with JFK vs. Mittens !

(09-02-2012, 09:34 AM)Tim Wrote: I'm not making him a saint, but when he was shot, there was a priest in the emergency room to hear his confession and administer Last Rites. There are no accidents and there is no such thing as luck, either God willed it or he allowed evil it's way, and priests administering the sacraments are not an evil.


I'd guess that if there wasn't a priest already at the hospital, visiting a patient or patients, somebody would have thought to get one, or a priest who heard about the shooting would have just gone there.  Jackie may well have asked somebody, like a Secret Service agent, to get a priest.  In any case, it was a good sign that a priest was there.  That trip was the first one Jackie had made since their son Patrick was born prematurely in late summer and lived only a day or two.

I think I've read that the Last Rites were given to JFK conditionally.  You've seen the back of his head blown off in the Zapruder film, right?  And Jackie trying to climb on the car to catch the back of his head before it falls off the car?  It would not seem that he could have confessed, would seem he was DOA and it just wasn't announced for a while.  But who knows?  It was a terrible day, that's all I remember.  Nothing I'd ever expected to happen in this country in our time.

I know a guy who was drinking and playing Russian Roulette with his buddies when he was about 17.  The bullet went through his brain into the ceiling without doing any damage to him apparently.  He's about 45 now and sober, is self-employed.

Did he replaster the ceiling?
(09-02-2012, 12:09 PM)ggreg Wrote: Did he replaster the ceiling?

I don't know.  But once he got over his wild years, he visits his mother often and fixes things for her
I don't know about the old Kennedy's but I def know that it was a Jesuit priest that convinced Teddy Kennedy that it was ok to be Catholic and pro abortion. The Jesuit priests name escapes but it started with Mc-something.
What most everyone has said here.  Money and power (politics) is what did it. 

I often wonder if JFK had lived to see Roe v. Wade if he would have gone along with it like most everyone in his party and family did?  I recall reading somewhere that the votes for a constitutional amendment to overturn Roe were there in Congress in the mid to late 70s but the Catholic bishops did nothing, as in absolutely zilch, to promote it at all and it eventually died off.  Maybe that's all BS though, I don't know.
(09-02-2012, 01:38 PM)DrBombay Wrote: What most everyone has said here.  Money and power (politics) is what did it. 

I often wonder if JFK had lived to see Roe v. Wade if he would have gone along with it like most everyone in his party and family did? 

Even Ted Kennedy held a pro-life position in 1973. In the years following Roe v. Wade he did a reversal.
The details are on the net if you look. The Theologians and there were more than a couple of them spent time at the Kennedy Compound trying to get Teddy to come to their side, it took time, but eventually he fell. Oh heck I found this in the Wall Street Journal;

The former Jesuit priest Albert Jonsen, emeritus professor of ethics at the University of Washington, recalls the meeting in his book "The Birth of Bioethics" (Oxford, 2003). He writes about how he joined with the Rev. Joseph Fuchs, a Catholic moral theologian; the Rev. Robert Drinan, then dean of Boston College Law School; and three academic theologians, the Revs. Giles Milhaven, Richard McCormick and Charles Curran, to enable the Kennedy family to redefine support for abortion.

It was contained in the article about the Caroline run in 2009 below;


The liberalism of the 1960s and Vatican II. To be serious "conservative" Catholic, let alone a trad in these times, is very counter cultural.
Almost all Catholics voted Democratic back then, and the Democrats were not a Liberal Party. Both parties had coonservatives and liberals. (note they were all small "c" and "l") The democrats and their unions were mobbed up and that's what most folks saw as bad, not their liberalness. In fact much of the so-called left leaning was the Catholic charitable streak in the party.  The great line wasn't drawn then. It 'd come after Roe v. Wade, and to think in today's terms of liberal ideologues and conservative ideologues misses the point, and the times, entirely.

One of the greatest Republicans of that time had to spend months wrestling with his conscience before he agreed that "Negroes" deserved the right to vote wthout hindrance. That's conservative American thought of the 1960's. He is considered a Statesman for it and he's Everett Dirksen a hero in my state.  Today because of trends like the neo-cons, the term Conservative in this country is synomous with religious. The problem is that brand of Conservativism in this country isn't religious, it's an ideology. That ain't what conservative is supposed to be. Worse we are infected to a certain degree and don't see it.



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