Why did the Kennedys become bad Catholics?
#51
(09-03-2012, 12:07 AM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote:
(09-02-2012, 11:59 PM)DrBombay Wrote: What's really sad is that Johnson was already president simply by the fact that Kennedy was dead.  He didn't have to be sworn in on anything.  He just used it as a photo op and he dragged out Mrs. Kennedy in her grief and blood stained dress as a prop.  The man was an SOB.

Funny how that is. The rituals of state are just for show. The President becomes President at noon on Inauguration Day, regardless of the oath. The British monarch becomes monarch immediately after the old one dies. The coronation is just a formality.

And the pope becomes pope immediately upon his acceptance of the office.  Unless he's an obstinate modernist who has publicly professed heresy.  Oh, wait...  :sneaky:
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#52
(09-02-2012, 11:59 PM)DrBombay Wrote:
(09-02-2012, 11:39 PM)m.PR Wrote: I realize this thread has been derailed. But I have to add that President Kennedy had a missal on him when he died. Also, apparently he took the sacraments often, and in his last days had started to take his faith more seriously. More in this thread:

President Kennedy's Missal

What's really sad is that Johnson was already president simply by the fact that Kennedy was dead.  He didn't have to be sworn in on anything.  He just used it as a photo op and he dragged out Mrs. Kennedy in her grief and blood stained dress as a prop.  The man was an SOB.

He was very much an SOB. A picture included in that photo op shows Texas rep Albert Thomas winking at SOB errrrrrrr LBJ.
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#53
(09-02-2012, 11:00 PM)cath4ever Wrote: I believe I have read before that Mrs. Kennedy specifically asked for the funeral to be a Pontifical Low Mass rather than a Pontifical High Mass, although I could be wrong on this. I think also that there had been a push to have the funeral at the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception, but somehow the Cathedral of St. Matthew got chosen instead.

This is true.  As a head of state "protocal" called for a Solemn High Mass, and I believe there were additional rubrics for a Requiem for a Head of State (such as three Absolutions at the casket).  Mrs. Kennedy did not want a two hour or longer ceremony, understandable, especially with the children.  She implored Cardinal Cushing to keep it simple.  As I recall he said "we'll bury him like a Jesuit, but it must be by the book".  Both the Church and the governmental planners wanted the National Shrine.  It was larger, considered nicer than St. Matthews, and the Secret Service felt security would be easier there, will all the Heads of State and Governments in attendence.  But, that location would have precluded the procession on foot behind the caisson from the Capital to the church, and Mrs. Kennedy's wishes prevailed.
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#54
Diddo what Moneil and others have said about Jackie Kennedy opting for the Pontifical Low Mass Requiem.  I have been looking for such footage off and on for several years.  Good find.
Archbishop Cushing was known for his particular Boston-Irish accent.  I knew a elderly priest ordained by him who would do it on occasion when he came up. 
One story concerning Cushing has to do with the ordination of a deceased traditional priest in Boston, Fr John Keene.  When the still Rev Mr Keene kneeled in front of Cushing to be ordained to the priesthood, he accidentally knelt on the feet of the Archbishop.  Now Fr Keene was a very heavy man, I believe well over 300lbs then(later years even larger).  When that happened, Archbishop Cushing said "Jack, if you not get off of my feet, none of you are going to be ordained today!"  It must have hurt!
  I do pray that the Archbishop saved his soul.  I know well enough about his Americanism and birth-control comments.  I also believe, from what I can garner, that he was authentically concerned with and very charitable when it came to the mentally challenged/retarded children, providing care and homes for them as well as visiting them.  He is buried at one of the centers south of Boston, at his own request, to be near his spiritual children.  I pray a grace for a happy death was given him.  God only knows.
  Rose was a strong Catholic from most accounts.  She realised the meaning of her wedding vows-till death do us part.  If only more would take things as serious as she did. 
I will look at the site recommended on the Kennedy issue.  I will have to see where someone said that John and Jackie went to confession in the Cathederal the day before.  It would square with what an older gentleman I know who to this day states that he can remember back then seeing a major newspaper(maybe the Globe) that had a photo of JFK coming out of the confessional the day before he was shot.  If that is so, then it is better news than had he not been to the confessional.  Again, we leave it in God's hands.

  Joe
 
 
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#55
(09-03-2012, 12:25 AM)moneil Wrote: This is true.  As a head of state "protocal" called for a Solemn High Mass, and I believe there were additional rubrics for a Requiem for a Head of State (such as three Absolutions at the casket).  Mrs. Kennedy did not want a two hour or longer ceremony, understandable, especially with the children.  She implored Cardinal Cushing to keep it simple.  As I recall he said "we'll bury him like a Jesuit, but it must be by the book".  Both the Church and the governmental planners wanted the National Shrine.  It was larger, considered nicer than St. Matthews, and the Secret Service felt security would be easier there, will all the Heads of State and Governments in attendence.  But, that location would have precluded the procession on foot behind the caisson from the Capital to the church, and Mrs. Kennedy's wishes prevailed.

Thanks for the info. It's cool if the pontifical low Mass was done for pastoral reasons, rather than sheer laziness. I appreciate that they had a solemn Mass later on. And even if Mozart's Requiem is a liturgical abuse, it is interesting that according to the posted article, that was the first time Mozart's Requiem had ever been performed in its liturgical context in the United States.

The Latin-on-crack just isn't excusable, though. And I still don't get what's up with Cushing putting his head into the chalice!

I actually prefer the Cathedral of Saint Matthew over the National Basilica, aesthetically speaking. When I visited the National Basilica, I loved the mosaic work, but architecturally I felt like I was stuck in between a bunch of marble blocks like Tetris.
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#56
(09-03-2012, 12:51 AM)joe17 Wrote: I will have to see where someone said that John and Jackie went to confession in the Cathederal the day before.  It would square with what an older gentleman I know who to this day states that he can remember back then seeing a major newspaper(maybe the Globe) that had a photo of JFK coming out of the confessional the day before he was shot.  If that is so, then it is better news than had he not been to the confessional.  Again, we leave it in God's hands.

  Joe
 
 

This might be of some interest: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-reli...7338/posts
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#57
(09-03-2012, 12:08 AM)DrBombay Wrote: I don't know.  Constitutionally it's not required though.  The Vice President assumes the presidency upon the death of the President automatically.  No oath is required.  But I'm willing to be corrected.

True, but without exception, every VP who has succeeded on the death of a President has been sworn in. Coolidge was visiting his parents when he received news of Harding's death and was sworn in by his father who was a JP.
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#58
Thanks for the link Lee.  I have seen something similiar to this before, even the time frame and the slight chance that a priest at the hotel could have heard his confession.  I guess the search is still on.

Joe
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#59
(09-03-2012, 12:06 AM)Phillipus Iacobus Wrote:
(09-02-2012, 11:59 PM)DrBombay Wrote: What's really sad is that Johnson was already president simply by the fact that Kennedy was dead.  He didn't have to be sworn in on anything.  He just used it as a photo op and he dragged out Mrs. Kennedy in her grief and blood stained dress as a prop.  The man was an SOB.

Wasn't A. Johnson sworn in after Lincoln died as well?

Indeed Andrew Johnson was sworn in http://histsociety.blogspot.com/2010/11/...ident.html, as was Harry Truman following the death of Franklin Roosevelt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_inaug..._S._Truman.  Vice-President Gerald Ford took the oath following the resignation of Richard Nixon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inauguratio...erald_Ford.  It is a strong precedent, dating back to Vice-Presidet John Tyler taking the Oath of Office after the death of President William Henry Harrison in 1841, only 32 days after his inauguration, the first President to die in office.

Whatever else one may think of Lyndon Johnson, I don't believe he "organized" the taking of the oath administered by Federal Judge Sarah Hughes as a "photo op".  I think it is something that the people expected, and was an action that had strong precedent and tradition.  Regardless of what the Constitution says (this was before the passage of the 25th. Amendment in 1967) the conspiracy theory nutters would have totally whaked out even more than usual if Johnson hadn't taken the oath.  The Warren Commission Report states
Quote:From the Presidential airplane, the new President telephoned Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy, who advised that Mr. Johnson take the Presidential oath of office before the plane left Dallas. Federal Judge Sarah T. Hughes hastened to the plane to administer the oath. Members of the Presidential and Vice-Presidential parties filled the central compartment of the plane to witness the swearing in. At 2:38 p.m., e.s.t., Lyndon Baines Johnson took the oath of office as the 36th President of the United States. audio Mrs. Kennedy and Mrs. Johnson stood at the side of the new President as he took the oath of office. Nine minutes later, the Presidential airplane departed for Washington, D.C.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_inaug...B._Johnson
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#60
Mike, I also heard that LBJ swore on the First Lady's missal, since there was no Bible around. Any truth to that?
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