Why did the Kennedys become bad Catholics?
#71
LBJ
Means...motive and opportunity

Reply
#72
During Prohibition Joseph Kennedy the father was in business with the mob smuggling whiskey in from Canada. Joe screwed the mob on a couple of shipments to the tune of 2 mil.
He bragged about it often. How many people do you know who do that without consequences? I refer you to Godfather 3. Quote:" If you want to hurt a man , kill what he loves".
Who assassinated Oswald? Ruby was a low level mobster. JFK shared Judith Exner with Sam Giancana. It's all in the public record.

When I was a kid , you could hear Cardinal Cushing on the radio Sunday nights saying the rosary.
Cushings sister Dottie was married to a Jewish guy.
Reply
#73
(09-03-2012, 02:04 AM)moneil Wrote:
(09-03-2012, 01:43 AM)DrBombay Wrote: Well, LBJ was still an SOB.  Q.E.D.

He may have been (I play my cards close to the chest on this question), but not for the reason you mentioned.   :bronxcheer:

Come now, moneil.  Your apologia pro LBJ is lacking.  I would suggest that the still in shock brother of the recently deceased president may not have been in the most coherent state of mind to be advising Mr. Johnson on the niceties of presidential succession.  While the oath may have been seen as a necessary gesture, while unnecessary in law, having Mrs. Kennedy standing there was nothing but grandstanding by that "glad-handing" Texan. 
Reply
#74
(09-03-2012, 01:01 AM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote:
(09-03-2012, 12:25 AM)moneil Wrote: This is true.  As a head of state "protocal" called for a Solemn High Mass, and I believe there were additional rubrics for a Requiem for a Head of State (such as three Absolutions at the casket).  Mrs. Kennedy did not want a two hour or longer ceremony, understandable, especially with the children.  She implored Cardinal Cushing to keep it simple.  As I recall he said "we'll bury him like a Jesuit, but it must be by the book".  Both the Church and the governmental planners wanted the National Shrine.  It was larger, considered nicer than St. Matthews, and the Secret Service felt security would be easier there, will all the Heads of State and Governments in attendence.  But, that location would have precluded the procession on foot behind the caisson from the Capital to the church, and Mrs. Kennedy's wishes prevailed.

Thanks for the info. It's cool if the pontifical low Mass was done for pastoral reasons, rather than sheer laziness. I appreciate that they had a solemn Mass later on. And even if Mozart's Requiem is a liturgical abuse, it is interesting that according to the posted article, that was the first time Mozart's Requiem had ever been performed in its liturgical context in the United States.

The Latin-on-crack just isn't excusable, though. And I still don't get what's up with Cushing putting his head into the chalice!

I actually prefer the Cathedral of Saint Matthew over the National Basilica, aesthetically speaking. When I visited the National Basilica, I loved the mosaic work, but architecturally I felt like I was stuck in between a bunch of marble blocks like Tetris.

I agree with you about the Cathedral vs, the National Shrine. I have been to both and, while the BNSIC is certainly pretty, I think the Cathedral is much prettier. Especially before Vatican II the Cathedral must have been stunning!
Reply
#75
Read a book called THE LOYOLAS AND THE CABOTS
Reply
#76
(09-03-2012, 08:46 PM)DrBombay Wrote: Come now, moneil.  Your apologia pro LBJ is lacking.  I would suggest that the still in shock brother of the recently deceased president may not have been in the most coherent state of mind to be advising Mr. Johnson on the niceties of presidential succession.  While the oath may have been seen as a necessary gesture, while unnecessary in law, having Mrs. Kennedy standing there was nothing but grandstanding by that "glad-handing" Texan. 

So, let me lay this out, and view it from a couple of different angles.

So far eight U.S. Presidents have expired on the job (4 by assassination and 4 due to medical reasons) and one President has resigned before his term was completed.  Of these nine cases this thread has established that at least SIX of the Vice-Presidents who became President with the mortal demise (or non mortal departure) of the previous President “took the oath” (John Tyler, Andrew Johnson, Calvin Coolidge, Harry Truman, Lyndon Johnson, Gerald Ford).  That doesn’t mean that the other three (Millard Fillmore, Chester Arthur, Theodore Roosevelt) didn’t “take the oath”, I just haven’t been bothered to go look it up.  In at least four of these situations (Coolidge, Truman, Johnson, Ford) the oath was taken within hours of their ascendency to the Presidential office.  In at least two cases (Truman, Johnson) the widow of the former president was present at the oath taking.  It was Eleanor Roosevelt who summoned Truman to the White House to personally inform him that the President had died; the oath was administered to Vice-President (or now “ascended to the Presidency”, if one prefers) Truman that very evening in the Cabinet Room, with Mrs. Roosevelt in attendance.  I’ll not have it be my place to discern whether “taking the oath” is unnecessary in law, or not, but the practice of a succeeding Vice-President “taking the oath” seems fairly well established in tradition, from the time of the first such succession, John Tyler, in 1841.  I happened to have been around on November 22, 1963 (though only of the tender age of 12 years, 4 months, 25 days at the time) and regardless of the constitutional issue, I am of the firm belief that the country needed that “visual assurance” of a succession provided by the photograph of Vice-President (or now “ascended to the Presidency”, if one prefers) Johnson “taking the oath”.

When President Kennedy was declared dead Johnson was taken to Air Force One at Love Field.  The plane was held to await the arrival of Mrs. Kennedy and the late President’s casket (there was an altercation occurring at Parkland Hospital between the Secret Service and the late President’s staff and the Dallas Medical Examiner, who insisted the body not leave his jurisdiction until the murder investigation was completed).  The link I provided in my Reply #58 indicates that Johnson was transported to Love Field “below the car's window level throughout the journey”.  I personally don’t think that even Lyndon Johnson, while being held down on the floor board of a car, was capable of the machination of thinking “As soon as we get everybody on board I’m going to be the first President sworn in by a women, on an airplane, and I’m going to have the blood soaked widow of my predecessor standing right next to me”.  I just don’t think that was what was going through the "glad-handing" Texan’s mind as the Secret Service was holding him down on the floor board of the car.  Even for those who (in retrospect) may think it may have been more “decorous” to have held the oath taking later, in Washington (DC) I am thinking Mrs. Kennedy would have insisted on being in attendance.

EDIT

Just 'cuz the modity capability has been restored I'll modiy to add that I certainly defend your right to hold that LBJ was, is, and forever shall be a SOB, but not the the basis of how he "took the oath".
Reply
#77
(09-02-2012, 10:41 AM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(09-02-2012, 09:54 AM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote:
(09-02-2012, 09:06 AM)TraditionalistThomas Wrote: Vatican II happened, that's what.

The Kennedys were hardly angels long before Vatican II.  :LOL:

This! Vatican II was less than half over when JFK was assassinated.

I was mainly thinking about Ted Kennedy.
Reply
#78
I was very young when JFK went to meet his Maker; we lived in Texas at the time. I had taken the day off from school, it was a friday and I still remember what I was doing; one of those moments you will always remember, like 911. Being in Texas I dare say that our news coverage was more detailed, local than the rest of the country's was, lots of local interviews with people who were there. Most mentioned the grassy knoll and shots from there. They all couldnt have been mistaken, something happened there. Dont forget Oswald also killed a local cop. And they sealed the archives for 75 or was it 100 years. Why? Because the counrty would be in an uproar if they knew the truth? But in 75 years anyone around from that time would be too old to do anything, and the people 75 years down the road wouldnt care that much? And the Warren commission; most didnt believe it then. Those alive when it happened will never know the real truth, thats the way they want it.

And Teddy was the bad Kennedy. There is probably something in the family passed down from generation to generation that needs to be cleansed before they become decent catholics.
Reply
#79
There are a lot of theories: JFK didn't want a war in Vietnam, retribution for the failed Bay of Pigs, the communists took him out so Goldwater wouldn't win, etc.

I really don't regard him as a Catholic president, but a president who was Catholic. His speech to the Houston Ministers was disgusting, and I know he had to do it or he wouldn't win prot votes.
Reply
#80
(09-04-2012, 01:21 PM)In nomine Patris Wrote: Being in Texas I dare say that our news coverage was more detailed, local than the rest of the country's was, lots of local interviews with people who were there. Most mentioned the grassy knoll and shots from there. They all couldnt have been mistaken, something happened there. Dont forget Oswald also killed a local cop. And they sealed the archives for 75 or was it 100 years. Why? Because the counrty would be in an uproar if they knew the truth? But in 75 years anyone around from that time would be too old to do anything, and the people 75 years down the road wouldnt care that much? And the Warren commission; most didnt believe it then. Those alive when it happened will never know the real truth, thats the way they want it.

The first witness interviewed on WFAA-TV, Bill Newman, whom you might remember as the father who shielded his two sons on the grassy knoll along with his wife, stated twice that the shots came from the “hill,” as he called it. Additionally, the motorcycle policeman who rode to the right-rear of the limo immediately parked his bike and ran up the hill toward where he believed the shots came from, followed by nearly 200 people, despite being ordered to proceed to the hospital. I’ll always believe Oswald was guilty – but not as a lone assassin.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)