Traditional Catholic love and loyalty toward the Pope
(09-26-2012, 12:05 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:
(09-25-2012, 09:07 PM)Hanno Wrote: I don't think the YouTube commenters are necessarily anti-Catholic.  I think there are a lot of people out there who are basically apathetic towards the Church, but they know about the sex-abuse crisis, and when they see a video like that (which, come on, is totally homo-campy), they can't resist making a funny comment.  I'm thinking very much of myself, and how I was before I reverted.

I don't think the typical youtube commenter sees the sex abuse crisis as a problem rooted in homosexuality; I think they think it's pedophilia. I was just talking to someone today -- well, emailing someone -- and telling him how the problem is homosexual priests, the victims are teenaged boys with secondary sex characteristics, etc. -- but how we Catholics can't call a spade a spade there and name the problem because we'd be accused of "homophobia." Anyway, that's my take on it. Actually, on second thought, I think they DO know it's a homosexual issue -- but they never SAY that. They call it "pedophilia" because it sounds worse and because you can't discuss homosexuality in any terms other than glowing.

You might be too generous to these kids.  I would guess that the typical (male) YouTube commenter doesn't really analyze things that far.  Nor is as he conditioned by the gay agenda as you might think.  I know plenty of atheist / agnostic / liberal-minded males who would nevertheless have no probably calling something like those acrobats "gay."  They likely just associate the sex abuse scandal with "pervert homos" and mock the pope-acrobat video from there.

(09-26-2012, 12:05 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: I didn't see anything in that video that was "homoerotic," but I did see what a lot of males would consider "gay." Like I said, I think that a lot of (at least American) males would call the video "gay" because that's just how many men are in this country; anything less than John Wayne=gay. I mentioned the "Tom Cruise is gay" thing that men throw around -- that phenomenon. The acrobats were good-looking men in relatively tight white pants who actually were physically close to each other. I mean, men's hands touched in that vid! Golly! To a lot of (American) guys, that's "gay." But when doing acrobatics that involves standing on each other, hands are going to touch. So I guess the moral of the story for some here is:  men shouldn't do acrobatics. It's either a sport where you run each other down (like football), or it's "gay."

Maybe it's a generational thing.  What generation are you, if I may ask?  My generation, "Generation Y" (born in the 80s and 90s), isn't really that manly.  We don't set the standard with John Wayne, and it doesn't really bother us if men's hands touch each other.  We've been inculcated with less rigid attitudes.  And we are steeped in pop culture.  What we pick up on is the presentation of the thing.  Let me just cite a few examples:

1. The totally corny male strip club music.  When I first heard it, I thought it for a second it was the keyboard riff of that eurotrash classic, "Rock Me Amadeus!"  (But that wasn't fair to Falco.  Instead it's just a lame wannabe.) 

2. How slowly they unzip their jackets while posing in cocky, puffed-up stances before they perform.  They're like, "I am Eduardo.  I will reveal my chest for you to gaze upon.  Yes."

3. Check out the suspicious white wristbands.  Chippendales dancers wear white wristbands, too, you know.

4. At the end, they go into their ridiculous posing routine again, flexing their arms at their sides and looking like they're gracing the audience with the privilege of basking in the glory of their pec muscles.  The one dude in the center is my favorite.  That guy cracks me up.  He's Eduardo.  Look at that grin.

Anyway, if you consider all these elements, then yes, I'm sorry, I think it really has to qualify as a massive slice of "homoerotic beefsteak cheese." That's what I mean when I say it's "gay."  It's got all the standard pop culture ingredients.  On the other hand, I've seen the Cirque du Soleil troupe, and it's much more tasteful (and a lot less ridiculous) than those acrobats.  Same with ballet.  I've seen The Rite of Spring and that was spectacular and strange.  I don't think my generation would necessarily consider something like that "gay."

(09-26-2012, 12:05 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: And, also like I said, I definitely think that anything that'd make the Church the butt of a joke will be picked up on and hammered at, even something completely innocuous. A priest eats a hot dog and a pic of it could end up on The Tonight Show with Leno just saying, "Need I say more?" It's how it goes. But I don't fault priests for eating hot dogs when they dang well please.

Not sure about that.  There weren't any "the pope is a furry!" comments in the lion cub video.  I agree, though, people are going to seize on any ammunition you give them.  That's why I think the acrobats in particular were a dreadful choice.
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I'm 49, Hanno, an X-er. Born the year everything went crazy (1963).
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Quote:1. The totally corny male strip club music.  When I first heard it, I thought it for a second it was the keyboard riff of that eurotrash classic, "Rock Me Amadeus!"  (But that wasn't fair to Falco.  Instead it's just a lame wannabe.) 

I'm so glad you qualified that, cuz I love me some Falco  :LOL:

Quote:2. How slowly they unzip their jackets while posing in cocky, puffed-up stances before they perform.  They're like, "I am Eduardo.  I will reveal my chest for you to gaze upon.  Yes."

This! It was so embarrassing!  I stopped watching after that, and sorta skipped around. I think I'd have rather watched Chris Farley and Patrick Swayze in their Chippendale sketch. At least then it would have been funny and not just total Gay Camp (i.e. Village People)
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(09-25-2012, 08:59 PM)voxxpopulisuxx Wrote:
(09-25-2012, 08:48 PM)Jacafamala Wrote: Well so how about traditional love for the pope? That's what I want to know about. Let's forget the scantily clad acrobats. Anyone could see that was embarrassing. See now this is why the Holy Father wants the SSPx back; so he can get someone with more sense who is reliable to schedule the "acts" for the Wednesday audience.

Maybe VOX POP!!  :LOL:
first act:

It'd be an improvement!
Oh my Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything.--Fr Dolindo Ruotolo

Persevere..Eucharist, Holy Rosary, Brown Scapular, Confession. You will win.
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(09-25-2012, 02:57 PM)Hanno Wrote:
(09-25-2012, 01:26 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(09-25-2012, 01:18 PM)Hanno Wrote:
(09-25-2012, 12:51 PM)JayneK Wrote: While it is obvious in hindsight that some people are taking the acrobats that way, if I were the person in charge of arranging entertainment for the pope, I doubt I would have predicted it.  I just don't accept that not being able to think like a gay activist is some sort of moral fault.  I don't think that I am sinful or imprudent because that looked like a perfectly innocent acrobat act to me.  But even if the person who made this arrangement did do something wrong, why would anyone hold the Pope responsible for watching it?

It's not necessarily "thinking like a gay activist."  That's an extreme way of seeing things.  Really, it's 2012.  Everyone should know what cheesy homoeroticism looks like.  The culture is rife with it.  Knowing what the iconic "eurotrash beefcake male stripper" stylings are in 2012 is the same thing as knowing what a "Vargas girl" pinup look was in the 1940s.  You needn't be a prude to recognize either.

It's possible the pope got blindsided with this, but isn't he responsible for picking his advisors and event coordinators?  Thisis  just more evidence that the Church needs to go trad-and-dignified from the top down, and avoid these kinds of flubs by erring on the side of prudence and modesty.

I do not think that Catholics should know what cheesy homoeroticism  looks like.  I don't want to know and I'm sure not going to teach my children.  My goal is for us to have pure and innocent thoughts, not to be thinking like the world.  I think it is a good thing if the event coordinator at the Vatican does not recognize cheesy homoeroticism or beefcake stripper stylings.

Jayne, I disagree with you here.  I don't think Catholics have to live in a complete bubble, totally isolated from culture.  True, there is much that is lascivious in modern culture, but that was true of culture even before Vatican II.  I am not saying that Catholics should seek out homoerotic stuff, but it's naturally going to cross their field of vision if they watch television or go to movies.  (I know there are some who argue that we should throw out our TVs and only watch "The Bells of St. Mary's" and wholesome stuff like that, but that's a different discussion to have).  Just like it would be natural for a Catholic in the 1940s to know who Bettie Page was and what Vargas girl pinups were, it's not unthinkable that a Catholic in 2012 would know what cheesy homoeroticism looks like.  A lot of us grew up in the 90s and the 00s, and that kind of stuff was frequently on TV and in the movies.  Your kids probably know who Pamela Anderson is.  They therefore know what the "Playboy bunny / blonde bombshell / plastic sex kitten" look is, even though you'd probably rather they not.  It works like that.  By the same token, if they watch even an average amount of TV, they'll know what a "eurotrash beefcake" look is, too.  (Unless they're gay, they'll probably find it funny.  If I had to caption the end of that video, where the guys are grinning and strutting around with their arms flexed and their chests out, it would be "Yes.  Yes, you audience persons.  My name is Eduardo.  I am very dedicated to my pectorals.  In my pectorals I take much pride.  You like?  You like what you see?"  Normally it's all very mockable.  Sadly, in this situation it also involves the Holy Father).
Greetings Eduardo. Welcome to the foru.....wait a minute.What?
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(09-25-2012, 08:30 PM)Hanno Wrote: FE is a great forum indeed.  I must say, however, I really like Jayne.  When I first came here, she was one of the few people who defended me when I was unjustly accused of being a Puritan.  I'm sure she doesn't remember it, but I haven't forgotten.  Thank you for that, Jayne.  I  like you and voxxpopuli both.

:)

Yes, I had forgotten.  I had to look it up.  I suppose, you, like your avatar, never forget.  Anyhow, you know what they say:  Always stand up for the underelephant. 

(Maybe they don't say that.  But they should. :grin:)
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