Benedict: Take Joy in the Good of our Separated Brethren
(10-04-2012, 07:10 PM)Parmandur Wrote:
(10-03-2012, 08:09 PM)JuniorCouncilor Wrote:
(10-03-2012, 05:04 PM)SaintSebastian Wrote: Regarding the postive versus negative tones, I think the distinction lies in the object of the pronoucement.  In my experience--and this lines up with what I've read from a lot of saints--is the dire warnings work better to keep good Catholics as good Catholics.  When interacting with someone outside the Church, or someone with little care for sin, or someone who already thinks he is saved, etc., the dire warnings don't do much--the positive bears many more fruits.  The pre-Vatican II Popes and Councils tended to be doing just what the negative approach works best for--they are addressing Catholics and intervening to keep them Catholic.  From Vatican II on, the Council and Popes have also been addressing the whole world, and I think that accounts for the change in tone for better or worse (personally I think said change in tone is a mixed bag).

This is an interesting idea, and seems likely enough prima facie.  However, I strongly suspect that we have not only a high rate of people falling away (which would be bad enough) but also a drop in conversions as a result of this "positive" attitude.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm negative to a fault in some ways, but that this is one of them is definitely not obvious to me.

The bottom line is we need both, and in balance.  The modern hierarchy's "focus on the positive" far outweighs any focus on the negative among people who are trying to be good Catholics.

Here's the thing: the most rapid increase in conversions to the Catholic Church in history is actually after Vatican II.  Not in the West, generally, though no slouch there, but the crop of conversions since the Council has actually been enormous worldwide.  The trips of JP II to Africa and the rest of the developing world coincided with the conversion of tens of millions to the Catholic Faith.  In pragmatic Evangelical terms, that is impressive.

The most rapid increase?  If you can give me a cite, I would be interested.  I could believe largest numbers-- since population now is greater than it's ever been-- but greatest rate of increase?  That seems difficult to believe.  If it were true, I would suspect it was because the "reforms" of V2 took place more slowly there.  We can see how the liberals were interested to conquer the first world first.

In any case, the most rapid exodus of priests and religious also took places after Vatican II.  You can argue post hoc ergo propter hoc on that if you want, but then it would apply to your argument as well...

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Re: Benedict: Take Joy in the Good of our Separated Brethren - by JuniorCouncilor - 10-04-2012, 09:37 PM

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