Benedict: Take Joy in the Good of our Separated Brethren
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(10-21-2012, 05:22 PM)James02 Wrote: The problem with this sermon are many.  If we go way out on a limb, and say he is saying Catholics should be happy that Baptist Hospitals are providing discounted medical care to poor people, then yeah, that's fine.  The problem is you can't tell me what he means.  And sure enough many heretics will use this sermon to promote ecuManiacism.  His choice of words are also very poor: 

I can tell you that the Catholic thing to do is to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he means something Catholic -- which would entail believing that he means what it looks like he means: simply that the natural virtues and grace can be found outside the visible Church. Further, if his choice of words are poor, that is one thing, and no big deal to express that opinion; it's another thing to go on about his alleged "indifference" and such.

Quote:  Note, not working to better the Earthly City, but the City of God.  Big problem there....Is he REALLY talking about the baptist church giving out discount medical care?  This ambiguous sentence is dangerous.


He is referring to the baptized, and Baptism belongs to the Church. From the Catholic Encyclopedia: "The old distinction between the body and soul of the Church is useful to prevent confusion of ideas. Christian baptism constitutes membership in the Visible Church; the state of grace, membership in the Invisible. It is obvious that one membership does not necessarily connote the other."

Quote:  What in the heck is he talking about?  Are Catholics envious and jealous of the Baptist Hospital for providing care for poor people?  So exactly what is he talking about? 

I answered with my opinion on this in the post you were responding to. I believe he is talking about spiritual jealousy.

Quote: If I'm a NeoCatholic, then here is how I would take it.  We shouldn't be envious and jealous of the success evangelicals are having converting Catholics.  Especially when there have been some articles out there bringing up the fact.  Bascially it is the message of someone who does not know what to do and has given up.  It's a massive rationalization.  Well the grace has moved to Africa, so the Spirit is moving these evangelicals to bring these Catholics closer to Christ.

Does the Pope explicitly say this?  Nope, agreed.  But answer me this.  How will the bulk of the neoCatholics take this sermon?  Will they take it that we should be happy some poor people are getting medical care at the Baptist Hospital (which before they were envious and jealous), or that Catholics should not be envious and jealous over the 10's of millions the evangelicals and mormons are "converting"?  So how will a NeoCat read this?

I have no idea how a "NeoCat" would read it.  But I read it as him saying that virtue and grace exist outside the Church's visible boundaries and we should rejoice in that fact; that because Baptism belongs to the Church (and there is only One Church and it is Catholic and I'm sure that is what he, being the Pope, means by the word), there is at least some level of "communion" with Protestants; and that spiritual jealousy is to be avoided. I don't see him as referring in any way to Mormons' proselytizing  success or evangelizing in Africa or whatever. As to whether or not "neoCats" would take this text to mean they should be happy that some poor people are getting medical care at the Baptist hospital, I don't think that's at all what he's talking about, but one should be happy about that anyway. It's a good thing.

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Re: Benedict: Take Joy in the Good of our Separated Brethren - by VoxClamantis - 10-21-2012, 06:08 PM



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