Benedict: Take Joy in the Good of our Separated Brethren
(10-22-2012, 11:06 AM)newyorkcatholic Wrote: There are two issues here.

1. What the Pope said is okay or not okay.

2. Whether the people who say that the Pope's words were okay are (a) actually saying the words were okay or (b) saying it doesn't matter, put your head in the sand, the Pope is always right, just trust blindly.

CC was accusing people of saying (b), but no one is actually saying (b). Vox is pointing out that they are saying (a) which is a totally different position to take (and which preserves the view the we should be reasonable, we can use our minds, we can open our eyes - but comes to a different conclusion than those who say the Pope's words are problematic).

So without even forcing a side, I think Vox (who can clarify if I'm mistaken) is really saying that CC is off with his (quite unfair) characterization. "I see the problems with the Pope's words, so if you think they are okay, you must think we should be naive and act like we don't have reason."

The problem is how much of peoples conclusions come from a presumption that actually the pope might be right because he's pope? Would those people come to the same conclusion if any old person said it or if it was just some private thoughts written in the popes diary? Judging from a lot of arguments that I've had with people on the magisterium I think the answer to that is obviously, No.

The other issue is that I haven't seen any cogent argument advanced that the popes words are fine, I've read several people saying this but no ones actually offered to prove or show it. Considering that several people have done the opposite i.e advanced cogent arguments that the popes words are problematic, its reasonable to not be very convinced by those who think the popes words are perfectly fine.

CC may or may not be right in this particular occasion  but there is a pattern of behaviour of some that resembles what he say, even if it might not have happened on this thread and there have been several threads where peoples arguments boil down to "the pope can't be wrong so you are wrong"

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Re: Benedict: Take Joy in the Good of our Separated Brethren - by TrentCath - 10-22-2012, 11:25 AM

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