Benedict: Take Joy in the Good of our Separated Brethren
(10-22-2012, 12:10 PM)newyorkcatholic Wrote:
(10-22-2012, 11:49 AM)James02 Wrote: Vox, you see nothing wrong with this?  Not even a little problem?  Just a great speech?

Pope Leo Wrote:The practice of the Church has always been the same, as is shown by the unanimous teaching of the Fathers, who were wont to hold as outside Catholic communion, and alien to the Church, whoever would recede in the least degree from any point of doctrine proposed by her authoritative Magisterium

Leo the Great Wrote:"Wherefore, since outside the Catholic Church there is nothing undefiled, the Apostle declaring that 'all that is not of faith is sin,' we are in no way likened with those who are divided from the unity of the Body of Christ; we are joined in no communion"

Pope Benedict Wrote:  It can also occur that in the Church herself sometimes there is a failure to value and to appreciate, in a spirit of profound communion, the good things done by various ecclesial groups.

Hat tip to southpaw.

Just to be exact: the first two quotes talk about communion. The third talks about a "spirit of profound communion."

I'm not sure what that is, but it's not the same thing. Pope Benedict could easily be talking about an approach ruled by charity which seeks to begin a relationship with those outside of Catholic communion, in order to establish what is held in common first.

The first two quotes also talk about the non-Catholics groups and their status. The third talks about the Church's approach (the "failure to value and appreciate.")

I don't know ... I'm not comfortable with the phrase. It's not clear. But there's no obvious contradiction either.

Even if you are right, and I really don't think you are, you prove too much, the phrase is ambigous and the pope would be censured for a "badly expressed proposition". It's sad that a pope would potentially fall under a censure, no matter how minor.

Frankly though I think your argument does not hold water, as a whole the thing reeks of indifferentism, the pope states that god can work outside of the church, god can work in different ways, its all good, it reflects his diversity and "imagination",  we should value what God does outside the church and be sorry for the church's failings. There is no mention of the uniqueness of the Church, no mention of what God ordinarily does only through the Church or what in fact he only does through the Church, no prayer or mention of or for conversion, nothing, its as if they and the Church are entirely the same, entirely equal and both need to respect each other. In fact this is confirmed explicitly when the pope says
Quote: and that it is possible to work together in the cause of the Kingdom of God in different ways, even offering a simple glass of water to a missionary (9:41).

As if the Church and those outside it were just different ways of doing the same thing!
and again later the holy Father says
Quote: We must all, however, be always able to appreciate and esteem each other, praising the Lord for the infinite “imagination” with which he works in the Church and in the world.


How is this not blatant indifferentism?
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Re: Benedict: Take Joy in the Good of our Separated Brethren - by TrentCath - 10-22-2012, 12:21 PM



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