Benedict: Take Joy in the Good of our Separated Brethren
(10-22-2012, 12:33 PM)newyorkcatholic Wrote:
(10-22-2012, 12:21 PM)TrentCath Wrote: Even if you are right, and I really don't think you are, you prove too much, the phrase is ambigous and the pope would be censured for a "badly expressed proposition". It's sad that a pope would potentially fall under a censure, no matter how minor.

Censures were not given that way. If someone who wasn't the pope wrote this 80 years ago, they would be asked about it and be able to clarify it before being censured. If censures were actually automatically given for ambiguity, we would all be in trouble!  The Pope is not putting forth a formal proposition. It was an Angelus address.

(10-22-2012, 12:25 PM)TrentCath Wrote: People rarely admit it, but practically that is how some people on here act. The phrase "benefit of the debt" often becomes a coverall to cover up the most absurd interpretations of things, all based on an explicit or implict refusal to accept the by far more likely conclusion, namely that the pope is wrong.

If a major part of your argument is going to be that people have this view, you should be able to demonstrate it clearly. I understand you suspect it, but it is far from established. I imagine in your eyes I am one of the "softliners" but I am very, very far from believing that the pope cannot be wrong. That's why I think you are wrong in this.

Also in general, we should deal with people's words and claims. If people "rarely admit it," you could be wrong. We can know someone intimately and have an idea of what they "really believe" if only they would "admit it," but we are fallible and are not mindreaders. It's even more likely that we can be wrong in our assessment of what people we disagree with believe but "rarely admit."

Uh actually I am pretty sure that censures were given exactly like that, they might well clarify it, but their original statement would still be censurable.

As for your advice, i reject it, the evidence of the attitude on here by some people is overwhelming.

But this is all moot, whats most telling is that no cogent argument, no argument at all has been made showing that the naysayers are wrong and the popes words are absolutely fine.
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Re: Benedict: Take Joy in the Good of our Separated Brethren - by TrentCath - 10-22-2012, 12:46 PM



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