Head of CDF declares Catholic bishop isn't
#21
He's equating him with a Greek schismatic. Hans Küng or Richard McBrien certainly don't subject themselves to Benedict XVI, but I won't hold my breathe to hear Müller call them out.
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#22
(10-05-2012, 05:08 PM)Phillipus Iacobus Wrote: He's equating him with a Greek schismatic. Hans Küng or Richard McBrien certainly don't subject themselves to Benedict XVI, but I won't hold my breathe to hear Müller call them out.

I think he just hasn't got around to it.

He's the head of the CDF.  He's got a lot to do!
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
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#23
Archbishop Mullers words contradict Pope Benedict XVI, directly:

In 2009, the Apostolic See identified Bishop williamson as a Catholic bishop.

"In virtue of the faculties that have been expressly conceded to me by the Holy Father, Benedict XVI, in virtue of the present decree, I lift from Bishops Bernard Fellay, Bernard Tissier de Mallerais, Richard Williamson and Alfonso de Galarreta the censure of excommunication latae sententiae declared by this congregation on July 1, 1988, and declare void of juridical effects beginning today the decree published then."

Rome, Congregation for the Bishops,

Jan. 21, 2009
Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re
Prefect of the Congregation for Bishops
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#24
The Neo-Catholics are out in full force yet again with this one, instead of this time applying their mental gymnastics to the Council, they apply it to their CDF head's words!

The quote from Mueller:
"Williamson is a separate problem to this reconciliation process. It is simply unacceptable that a Christian or even  more a bishop — of course he is not a Catholic bishop , as a bishop is only Catholic when he is in full communion with the Pope, the Successor of Peter, which Williamson is not — denies all that the Nazis had done against the Jewish people, their exterminations."

If +Williamson is not a Catholic bishop, then what is he?  An Anglican bishop?  A Lutheran bishop?

+Mueller is not calling into question +Williamson's status as a bishop.  He is CALLING INTO QUESTION HIS CATHOLICITY.

Any other reading is clearly and thoroughly wrong. 
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#25
(10-05-2012, 05:08 PM)Phillipus Iacobus Wrote: He's equating him with a Greek schismatic. Hans Küng or Richard McBrien certainly don't subject themselves to Benedict XVI, but I won't hold my breathe to hear Müller call them out.

Didn't he publicly criticize the LCWR? I know most posters here believe that the media lies about Pope Benedict disciplining liberal bishops in order to convince us that he is a trad, so I guess it might not have actually happened. If it did, though, I think it would be unfair to imply that Mueller only criticizes trads.
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#26
(10-05-2012, 05:27 PM)CollegeCatholic Wrote: The Neo-Catholics are out in full force yet again with this one, instead of this time applying their mental gymnastics to the Council, they apply it to their CDF head's words!

The quote from Mueller:
"Williamson is a separate problem to this reconciliation process. It is simply unacceptable that a Christian or even  more a bishop — of course he is not a Catholic bishop , as a bishop is only Catholic when he is in full communion with the Pope, the Successor of Peter, which Williamson is not — denies all that the Nazis had done against the Jewish people, their exterminations."

If +Williamson is not a Catholic bishop, then what is he?  An Anglican bishop?  A Lutheran bishop?

+Mueller is not calling into question +Williamson's status as a bishop.  He is CALLING INTO QUESTION HIS CATHOLICITY.

Any other reading is clearly and thoroughly wrong. 
The Archbishop does not say anything about Bishop Williamson not being a Catholic.
He always attaches the "Bishop" to his name when he says he is not a Catholc bishop.

If Bishop Muller actually believes Bishop Williamson is not Catholic he is clearly insane.

Really.

To contradict the Pope in that way...
insane.
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#27
So does a priest stop being Catholic when he's on a plane?

This "no ordinary jurisdiction=not catholic" is of paramount silliness.
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
Reply
#28
(10-05-2012, 05:51 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: So does a priest stop being Catholic when he's on a plane?

This "no ordinary jurisdiction=not catholic" is of paramount silliness.

Chris Ferrara exposed the nonsense perfectly last year

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#29
(10-05-2012, 01:40 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(10-05-2012, 01:00 PM)OldMan Wrote: Novus  Ordo = Holocaustianity

I'm not sure how much of it is a Novus Ordo thing and how much is German influence.  As a nation, they are characterized by unclear thinking on this subject.  It is all emotional reactions rather than logic.

The Rhine flows into the Tiber...
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#30
I think it is pretty obvious that they have particular distaste for Williamson. You know, if you grew up in a country with extreme racists who slaughtered lots of people, or in the case of Muller, grew up in the immediate blowback from Hitler's regime, I imagine I'd have a distaste for Williamson too. Think of his perspective. German's overcorrect their position because of their guilt complex. Same with Americans and black people. You all know the story. And here comes this guy who has been part of this fringe group since the early 70s, and he is well know for pretty wild conspiracy theories, and then he tops the cake with his (I think) absurd 300k comment, knowing full well, because he said it, it was illegal to state, (not the most complementary act to bolster your reputation), and then he tops the top of the cake with rebellion against the superior of his fringe group, so now it is fringe on the fringe, and is the most outspoken critic of the Church, practically a sedevacantist, and this inspires confidence in him as a level headed person to sit down with? Sorry. I can understand where he and BXVI are coming from. Now do I think he should create further division, no. And it sounds that the Archbishop is being too free with interviewers with things which should be discussed behind closed doors, or in official documents. It may be that he has some strategy. Perhaps he is purposely trying to cause people to leave the SSPX fringe fringe. Or maybe pressuring Fellay to cut ties with Williamson. Who knows. There's seems to be no real win in this situation. Sad, really, on both sides.
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