Head of CDF declares Catholic bishop isn't
#31
(10-05-2012, 07:58 PM)Scriptorium Wrote: I think it is pretty obvious that they have particular distaste for Williamson. You know, if you grew up in a country with extreme racists who slaughtered lots of people, or in the case of Muller, grew up in the immediate blowback from Hitler's regime, I imagine I'd have a distaste for Williamson too. Think of his perspective. German's overcorrect their position because of their guilt complex. Same with Americans and black people. You all know the story. And here comes this guy who has been part of this fringe group since the early 70s, and he is well know for pretty wild conspiracy theories, and then he tops the cake with his (I think) absurd 300k comment, knowing full well, because he said it, it was illegal to state, (not the most complementary act to bolster your reputation), and then he tops the top of the cake with rebellion against the superior of his fringe group, so now it is fringe on the fringe, and is the most outspoken critic of the Church, practically a sedevacantist, and this inspires confidence in him as a level headed person to sit down with? Sorry. I can understand where he and BXVI are coming from. Now do I think he should create further division, no. And it sounds that the Archbishop is being too free with interviewers with things which should be discussed behind closed doors, or in official documents. It may be that he has some strategy. Perhaps he is purposely trying to cause people to leave the SSPX fringe fringe. Or maybe pressuring Fellay to cut ties with Williamson. Who knows. There's seems to be no real win in this situation. Sad, really, on both sides.

This presuposes that +Williamson is wrong in his views on the "holocaust." He does not hold these views absent of any evidence. If in fact what he is saying is true, then every child of school age in Europe and the US was/is/still is being taught a false version of history; a history that has ramifications concerning the faith and how it percieves Jewry. Assuming he can be proved wrong, then you have a point.

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#32
(10-05-2012, 02:50 PM)Phillipus Iacobus Wrote:
(10-05-2012, 01:15 PM)MRose Wrote: One piece of further irony to me about the whole SSPX-Rome business, and these ridiculous comments by ++Mueller about +Williamson, is that it is not like any of these Vatican prelates throwing sand at the SSPX care if anyone else is Protestant. +Fellay recently gave a conference on the negotiations, wherein he summed them up as "Rome says the SSPX is Protestant, the SSPX says the Roman authorities are Modernists." Since when do these Roman authorities give a rip about someone being Protestant? Aren't they in invisible semi-partial quasi-Communion, on a different path, and shouldn't we solely focus on the good of our "separated brethren?"

It is weird, isn't it?

I mean, then Cardinal Ratzinger, head of the Inquisition and Dean of the College of Cardinals, had no problem giving Frère Roger of Taizé communion at John Paul II's funeral.

When was the last time a diocesan bishop or Vatican bureaucrat used the forceful language of Exsurge Domine, for example?
Sigh. We both know the answer to that. I remember reading Messrs. Ferrara and Woods' critique of the neoCatholic favoriteDominus Iesus, supposedly the shining example of orthodoxy in a sea of modernism.

In the end, Our Lady's Immaculate Heart will triumph.
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#33
I guess being a Catholic bishop these days means praying and collaborating with Lutheran heretics:

[Image: bormedia1476601.jpg]

As a Modernist, Bp. Mueller will never be twice the bishop Bp. Williamson is.
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#34
(10-05-2012, 05:46 PM)Old Salt Wrote: The Archbishop does not say anything about Bishop Williamson not being a Catholic.
He always attaches the "Bishop" to his name when he says he is not a Catholc bishop.

If Bishop Muller actually believes Bishop Williamson is not Catholic he is clearly insane.

Really.

To contradict the Pope in that way...
insane.

So you're saying +Mueller is saying that +Williamson isn't a bishop? 

That makes far less sense.  Especially considering that +Mueller has said in the past
Quote:Müller: The four bishops of the SSPX should all resign and in political and no longer comment on ecclesiastical policy issues. They should lead an exemplary life as a simple priest and chaplain as part of the reparation for the damage that the schism has caused.
http://cathcon.blogspot.com/2009/02/rege...shops.html
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#35
You can tell a lot about a man by the people who attack him.

+Mueller is living in a fantasy world where the SSPX are schismatic and the Catholic Church began with Vatican II.
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#36
(10-05-2012, 02:50 PM)Phillipus Iacobus Wrote:
(10-05-2012, 01:15 PM)MRose Wrote: One piece of further irony to me about the whole SSPX-Rome business, and these ridiculous comments by ++Mueller about +Williamson, is that it is not like any of these Vatican prelates throwing sand at the SSPX care if anyone else is Protestant. +Fellay recently gave a conference on the negotiations, wherein he summed them up as "Rome says the SSPX is Protestant, the SSPX says the Roman authorities are Modernists." Since when do these Roman authorities give a rip about someone being Protestant? Aren't they in invisible semi-partial quasi-Communion, on a different path, and shouldn't we solely focus on the good of our "separated brethren?"

It is weird, isn't it?

I mean, then Cardinal Ratzinger, head of the Inquisition and Dean of the College of Cardinals, had no problem giving Frère Roger of Taizé communion at John Paul II's funeral.

When was the last time a diocesan bishop or Vatican bureaucrat used the forceful language of Exsurge Domine, for example?

Martin Luther was just called a "Great witness of the faith" by Benedict.  How much closer, even in Benedict's mind, is Lefebvre to being fully Catholic (whatever that exactly means to him)?

And yet...
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#37
(10-05-2012, 08:12 PM)Christknight104 Wrote: As a Modernist, Bp. Mueller will never be twice the bishop Bp. Williamson is.

I think you meant half the bishop Bp. Williamson is.

1) Do we now rank clergy like fantasy football players?
2) Archbishop Mueller is still a Prince of the Church and should be spoken of as such, especially in discussions on a public forum.  At the very least respect the office he holds and give him his proper title.  I have read many comments from people who get livid when Bishop Williamson or Archbishop Lefebvre is referred to as "Williamson" or "Lefebvre."  I think respect is a 2 way street.  If you're going to trash ++Mueller after he says something controversial than don't start crying when +Williamson gets spoken of poorly. 

I've seen enough disrespectful comments followed by whining from both camps for it to start pushing my buttons.  From what I've heard about Archbishop Lefebvre he was the epitome of a Catholic gentleman.  And from what I've read, although he was outspoken and unwavering in principle, he always maintained proper decorum.  Should we not strive to do the same?
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#38
(10-05-2012, 08:37 PM)Guardian Wrote:
(10-05-2012, 08:12 PM)Christknight104 Wrote: As a Modernist, Bp. Mueller will never be twice the bishop Bp. Williamson is.

I think you meant half the bishop Bp. Williamson is.

1) Do we now rank clergy like fantasy football players?

Thank you for the correction. No, of course not.  Clergy are held to a much higher standard than football players. This is why Bishop Mueller's actions shoud be scandalous to any serious Catholics.. Why does he pray with heretics and do joint services with them, while he bashes a fellow Catholic? For all wackiness that his enemies attribute to him,  Bishop Williamson is a  solidly orthodox bishop. One can see and judge that from his sermons and actions. Can the same be attributed to Archbishop Mueller, whose ecumenical activities( not to mention shocking written works)  are the antithetical  to his office as guardian and protector of Catholic Orthodoxy?
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#39
(10-05-2012, 08:37 PM)Guardian Wrote: If you're going to trash ++Mueller after he says something controversial than don't start crying when +Williamson gets spoken of poorly. 

There's a difference.  Williamson is Catholic in his faith.  "Controversial" is Williamson discussing the events of World War II.  Mueller, discussing the Lady-parts of the Blessed Virgin Mary and undermining the traditional understanding of the doctrines of the Church is beyond controversial, it's reprehensible, scandalous and requires a forceful rebuke.  It's an example of the absolute madness in the world and the Church that Mueller is treated with equanimity, Williamson is condemned for being intellectually and morally honest and third, people treat the two of them like they are somehow should be treated equally. 

Williamson doesn't deserve to be spoken of poorly, Mueller does.  Mueller has earned the scorn he should get.
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#40
(10-05-2012, 06:24 AM)Tim Wrote: Ze German Bishops are a real problem.
Is it true they threatened to apostatize were Rome to grant  the SSPX canonical status?
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