Head of CDF declares Catholic bishop isn't
(10-12-2012, 10:18 AM)Gerard Wrote:
(10-12-2012, 09:47 AM)Old Salt Wrote:
(10-11-2012, 08:41 PM)Gerard Wrote:
(10-11-2012, 12:03 PM)Old Salt Wrote: "without a hint of a doubt that it's valid because Holy Mother Church has decreed it so."

Gerard,
How do you know this with absolute moral certainty?
[referring to SSPX absolutions being always valid]

Certitude is either absolute or moral.  Absolute certitude is not possible in this life, therefore, based on my best and honest discernment, I have moral certitude on the issue. 

And I didn't say they are always valid, because you still have to hear the proper absolution if you are suspicious of such things. 
You said "without a hint of a doubt".
This would obviously include absolute, and moral lack of doubts.
Without a hint...

You are not sure.

No. Moral certitude does not mean a person has doubts.  It means a person could objectively be wrong but can act in good conscience.  Absolute certitude means there is no possibility for error. 

Doubt isn't even relevant to the discussion except in my reference to its absence.  
So again, you are not sure.
Reply
(10-12-2012, 11:42 AM)Old Salt Wrote:
(10-12-2012, 10:18 AM)Gerard Wrote:
(10-12-2012, 09:47 AM)Old Salt Wrote:
(10-11-2012, 08:41 PM)Gerard Wrote:
(10-11-2012, 12:03 PM)Old Salt Wrote: "without a hint of a doubt that it's valid because Holy Mother Church has decreed it so."

Gerard,
How do you know this with absolute moral certainty?
[referring to SSPX absolutions being always valid]

Certitude is either absolute or moral.  Absolute certitude is not possible in this life, therefore, based on my best and honest discernment, I have moral certitude on the issue. 

And I didn't say they are always valid, because you still have to hear the proper absolution if you are suspicious of such things. 
You said "without a hint of a doubt".
This would obviously include absolute, and moral lack of doubts.
Without a hint...

You are not sure.

No. Moral certitude does not mean a person has doubts.  It means a person could objectively be wrong but can act in good conscience.  Absolute certitude means there is no possibility for error. 

Doubt isn't even relevant to the discussion except in my reference to its absence.  
So again, you are not sure.

You don't understand.  What do you mean by "sure"? 
Reply
(10-12-2012, 12:49 PM)Gerard Wrote:
(10-12-2012, 11:42 AM)Old Salt Wrote:
(10-12-2012, 10:18 AM)Gerard Wrote:
(10-12-2012, 09:47 AM)Old Salt Wrote:
(10-11-2012, 08:41 PM)Gerard Wrote:
(10-11-2012, 12:03 PM)Old Salt Wrote: "without a hint of a doubt that it's valid because Holy Mother Church has decreed it so."

Gerard,
How do you know this with absolute moral certainty?
[referring to SSPX absolutions being always valid]

Certitude is either absolute or moral.  Absolute certitude is not possible in this life, therefore, based on my best and honest discernment, I have moral certitude on the issue. 

And I didn't say they are always valid, because you still have to hear the proper absolution if you are suspicious of such things. 
You said "without a hint of a doubt".
This would obviously include absolute, and moral lack of doubts.
Without a hint...

You are not sure.

No. Moral certitude does not mean a person has doubts.  It means a person could objectively be wrong but can act in good conscience.  Absolute certitude means there is no possibility for error. 

Doubt isn't even relevant to the discussion except in my reference to its absence.  
So again, you are not sure.

You don't understand.  What do you mean by "sure"? 
You sound like Bill Clinton.

Sure has only one meaning.
Reply
Cut the bs os. When it comes to sacraments and theology there are levels of doybt and certainty. Positive vs negative doubt etc
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
Reply
(10-12-2012, 02:15 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: Cut the bs os. When it comes to sacraments and theology there are levels of doybt and certainty. Positive vs negative doubt etc
No BS Mith

When it comes to Ecclesial Jurisdiction one is either sure a priest has it or is not, based on fact.

Reply
(10-12-2012, 03:36 PM)Old Salt Wrote:
(10-12-2012, 02:15 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: Cut the bs os. When it comes to sacraments and theology there are levels of doybt and certainty. Positive vs negative doubt etc
No BS Mith

When it comes to Ecclesial Jurisdiction one is either sure a priest has it or is not, based on fact.

No. That's B.S.  Supplied Jurisdiction, common error, extraordinary circumstances are all there in Canon Law (and common sense). 

Reply
(10-10-2012, 08:32 PM)Geremia Wrote: Pope Clement VIII's instruction 'Presbyteri Graeci', 30 August 1595 (DZ 1087): "Those ordained by schismatic bishops, who have been otherwise duly ordained, the due form having been observed, receive, indeed, ordination, but not jurisdiction."
Wait, does this necessarily refer to episcopal ordinations/consecrations?
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