Archdiocese of Vienna closing most of it's parishes
#11
I have to wonder what's happened to the distinction between the "Church teaching" and the "Church learning."  How intensive will the studies be for the laity who are going to take on the task of evangelization?  And further, will this include missionary work?

Is evangelization what is truly meant here (which includes the conversion of non-Catholics), or is it instead a thinly-veiled euphemism for more endless dialogue?
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#12
As far as explanations of the situation go, I would have found it more confidence-inspiring if His Eminence had said "Let's face it: we're imploding" or perhaps just ran in a circle and shouted "WHAT THE F**K IS GOING ON!" Either of those things would have made me feel much better about this situation, which is pretty much an unmitigated disaster.
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#13
(10-10-2012, 11:17 AM)SouthpawLink Wrote: I have to wonder what's happened to the distinction between the "Church teaching" and the "Church learning."  How intensive will the studies be for the laity who are going to take on the task of evangelization?  And further, will this include missionary work?

Is evangelization what is truly meant here (which includes the conversion of non-Catholics), or is it instead a thinly-veiled euphemism for more endless dialogue?


Proselytism is STRICTLY forbidden, then evangelization so far as no one converts, ...let's go.
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#14
(10-10-2012, 03:42 PM)maso Wrote: Proselytism is STRICTLY forbidden, then evangelization so far as no one converts, ...let's go.

Since when is proselytism strictly forbidden?  Who forbade it?
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#15
(10-09-2012, 11:30 AM)St. Pius of Trent Wrote: Hard to know where to start with this, but allows me to highlight a few things in this article from Angelqueen.rog.
http://angelqueen.org/2012/10/08/archdio...sh-reform/


Archdiocese of Vienna to undergo radical parish reform


[How will the Neo-Catholic/Fr. Fessio/Ignatius Press types react to this?]

Archdiocese of Vienna to undergo radical parish reform

Mon, 10/08/2012
by Christa Pongratz-Lippitt

ncronline.org/node/36401

.....
[Christa Pongratz-Lippitt is an Austrian correspondent for the London-based weekly Catholic magazine The Tablet.]



Explain to me how this is a celebration of the fruits of VII? Is this what we are to point to as success of the council?? If not, then what is?!? :eyeroll:

## I wondered when that would get a mention.
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#16
It'd be laughable if it wasn't so sad, all those souls lost by Modernist and heretical priests who are approved of by their bishops and the Popes, and who go teaching unchecked, while faithful priests (and laity) are persecuted for holding fast to the Catholic Faith.

Bit by bit, Modernism destroys itself.  It will continue to take the Church down with it, but there will be those faithful to Catholic Rome who will rebuild...

“The crumbled citadels have to be rebuilt, the bastions of Faith have to be reconstructed; firstly the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass of all time, which forms our saints; then our chapels, monasteries, our large families, our enterprises faithful to social politics of the Church, our politicians determined to advance the politics of Jesus Christ – this is the whole fiber of Christian social life, Christian customs, Christian reflexes, which we have to restore.”
Abp. Marcel Lefebvre
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#17
this is the result of bad catechesis and scandalous behavior
we need to pray fro these people
:pray: :pray: :pray:
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#18
(10-09-2012, 10:30 PM)charlesh Wrote: If it was simply a matter of there not being enough priests, or not enough Mass-going laymen, I would try to give this man the benefit of the doubt. However, he talks about the priesthood of the faithful, and priestless services as if it's a good thing. This man is a Vatican II apostate, and this is just the thing they have been planning all along. Of course, having cardinals who are apostates is nothing new. Fr. Malachi Martin talked about this for a long time. It's just always jolting to see it as it unfolds.

## The priesthood of the faithful, which is a consequence of baptism into Christ, and to which all the faithful are called, is a fact, not an error. What is erroneous, is to confuse it with the priesthood to which some members of the faithful are called. To put it another way, the priesthood conferred upon some Christians by the sacrament of ordination is a specific form of Christian vocation within the vocation common to all Christians as a consequence of their baptism into Christ.

The idea that all Christians are priests is not new - it is Biblical, and is witnessed to by St. Peter, and by the author of Revelation.

1Pe 2:1 So put away all malice and all guile and insincerity and envy and all slander.
1Pe 2:2 Like newborn babes, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up to salvation;
1Pe 2:3 for you have tasted the kindness of the Lord.
1Pe 2:4 Come to him, to that living stone, rejected by men but in God's sight chosen and precious;
1Pe 2:5 and like living stones be yourselves built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:6 For it stands in scripture: "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and he who believes in him will not be put to shame."
1Pe 2:7 To you therefore who believe, he is precious, but for those who do not believe, "The very stone which the builders rejected has become the head of the corner,"
1Pe 2:8 and "A stone that will make men stumble, a rock that will make them fall"; for they stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.
1Pe 2:9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people, that you may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
1Pe 2:10 Once you were no people but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy but now you have received mercy.

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne,
Rev 1:5 and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood
Rev 1:6 and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Rev 5:7 and he went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who was seated on the throne.
Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints;
Rev 5:9 and they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy art thou to take the scroll and to open its seals, for thou wast slain and by thy blood didst ransom men for God from every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
Rev 5:10 and hast made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on earth."

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/inde...=3423028.0 has a couple of pages on the common priesthood of the faithful.

It is different from the more familiar kind of priest - they are complementary, not opposed.

Whether the kind of services referred to are a good thing, is a different question, not the same one.
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#19
Good heavens - I find the 'Lay-people celebrating the ''Liturgy of the Word''' (i.e. Mass of the Catechumens) extremely chilling. It'll be 'lay presidency' or as I put it apostasy, grand heresy and appalling desecration of the priesthood, next.  Heresy is going to run riot - then again, the Austrian priesthood is already in open rebellion against the Pontiff over celibacy. A terrible hash that only some good Catholic discipline and sound teaching, tradition and orthodoxy, will put right.
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#20
This is their goal.  First Protestantism helped many leave the Church.  Then secularism ended the Church's influence and reign in the West.  Now Modernism is combining all that and more to dismantle Christ's Church from inside.  They're packing away the stoles, the tabernacles, etc.  Time to put that all away.  They'll give us a century or less of feel good "common priesthood" stuff, and then all desire for the divine will be directed toward Man.

They schooled us, with the help of their Master.  Unfortunately for them, the check-mate is waiting just around the corner.  We have the Lord.  And in their hubris, they've been duped into thinking He's a figment of our imagination.  Oh, how wrong they're about to be.
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