Please vote on Fr. Z poll
#31
(10-12-2012, 06:26 PM)Romish Papist Wrote: I agree with a few things you said, such as the first paragraph and the bit about Amerio and the tradtastic Welshman (Davies).  But I honestly don't think anybody, good guy or bad guy, trad or neo, would ever use Fr Z's polls for anything.  They are not scientific.  They are from a website that everyone knows mostly only trads or those with slightly tradish tendencies go to so the numbers are essentially of no use.

Whether that is accurate or not, it is worth noting that Fr. Z's blog is the most read Catholic blog, period (I could be wrong about this, but I am pretty sure this is the case).
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#32
As of my vote ("Yes"), it was 51% No (818.), and 48% Yes (773).

In short, Vatican II codified Neo-Modernism.
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#33
I voted yes...but in retrospect it's probably not the correct vote. Yes, Vatican 2 has been very bad and the cause of many of the problems. But the spirit of modernism was in the Church long before V2 happened. Let's face it, the modernists that gave us V2 were in positions of power during the "good ol' days."

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#34
(10-12-2012, 06:29 PM)SouthpawLink Wrote: In short, Vatican II codified Neo-Modernism.

That's an excellent way of putting it.
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#35
(10-12-2012, 06:32 PM)Petertherock Wrote: I voted yes...but in retrospect it's probably not the correct vote. Yes, Vatican 2 has been very bad and the cause of many of the problems. But the spirit of modernism was in the Church long before V2 happened. Let's face it, the modernists that gave us V2 were in positions of power during the "good ol' days."

Weren't a number of them under suspicion by the Holy Office, and weren't some of them also forbidden to teach (with a few of them having their books placed on the Index)?  I don't think all or even most them were in positions of power under Pope Pius XII (Pope John XXIII is another story, however...).  Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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#36
(10-12-2012, 12:18 PM)sw85 Wrote: I'm in a weird position. On the one hand I think the Vatican II documents *properly understood* are not problematic.

no not really DH is utterly heretical there are major problems with the documents themselves if heresy is interpreted correctly it is still heresy.
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#37
(10-12-2012, 06:40 PM)SouthpawLink Wrote:
(10-12-2012, 06:32 PM)Petertherock Wrote: I voted yes...but in retrospect it's probably not the correct vote. Yes, Vatican 2 has been very bad and the cause of many of the problems. But the spirit of modernism was in the Church long before V2 happened. Let's face it, the modernists that gave us V2 were in positions of power during the "good ol' days."

Weren't a number of them under suspicion by the Holy Office, and weren't some of them also forbidden to teach (with a few of them having their books placed on the Index)?  I don't think all or even most them were in positions of power under Pope Pius XII (Pope John XXIII is another story, however...).  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

If I recall, Pius XI and XII wanted to call the Second Vatican Council but were discouraged to by whoever advises popes because there were fears that modernists would hijack the council.
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
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#38
(10-12-2012, 06:32 PM)Petertherock Wrote: I voted yes...but in retrospect it's probably not the correct vote. Yes, Vatican 2 has been very bad and the cause of many of the problems. But the spirit of modernism was in the Church long before V2 happened. Let's face it, the modernists that gave us V2 were in positions of power during the "good ol' days."

It goes deeper than that, really. The century or so that trads worship was itself a monstrous distortion of the Faith in several ways. It was certainly not the ideal.

My kingdom is not of this world
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#39
Wow, we are at 49%!  Let’s keep it going.

"Yes, Vatican II is mostly to blame for problems in the Church today. (49%, 803 Votes)"

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#40
(10-12-2012, 06:56 PM)Might_4_Right Wrote: Wow, we are at 49%!  Let’s keep it going.

"Yes, Vatican II is mostly to blame for problems in the Church today. (49%, 803 Votes)"

Might4right,

I like some of what you say on these forums, but for some reason every time you speak here I'm overcome with a feeling of almost nauseating sadness... What could it be?  Hmm...  Ah yes!  It's your profile picture!!
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