Please vote on Fr. Z poll
#51
Voted yes.
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#52
I would like to return to something Gerard mentioned, which I think he called "the complicity of popes". This is partly why I hesitate more and more to blame VII. It takes a pope to call a Council. It takes a pope to lead a Council. It takes a pope to ratify the documents. Up to the very very last moment of the Council, a pope could have squashed the entire thing. And then, given all of the madness and chaos that immediately followed the Council, it would not have been unreasonable for Paul VI to have sort of put the thing on ice for a bit, or call for some pause in promoting it. But it was shoved down everyone's throat by the popes themselves. This is part of the problem I have with this. Anyone can come up with screwy ideas. We all do our best. But the fundamental administrative vocation of the pope is precisely to guard the deposit of faith, to make sure that any and all wild ideas remain far far from ecclesiastical approval, and therefore far from the souls of the faithful entrusted to him. So who or what is mostly to blame? There are 2 areas: ideas that were conceived in the Renaissance, heralding the age of man as "the measure of all things" in della Mirandola's phrase; and the popes, for there has not been one single pope that has approached it bravely. Pope Benedict has come the closest to questioning it, but really he has never questioned it, nor would I: I want him to question what was before the Council. I want him to talk about heretical notions vying politically for domination of a Council, and i want him to address his successor's attitude towards VII, the same attitude he refers to as the hermeneutic of rupture.
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#53
Voted yes.  No - 50%, 899 Votes  Yes - 49%, 878 Votes  Need 22 votes to take the lead.
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#54
I voted no.  Tip o' the hat
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#55
(10-12-2012, 08:36 PM)DrBombay Wrote: I voted no.   Tip o' the hat

How dare you, sir!  Rolling Pin
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#56
(10-12-2012, 08:39 PM)Romish Papist Wrote:
(10-12-2012, 08:36 PM)DrBombay Wrote: I voted no.   Tip o' the hat

How dare you, sir!  Rolling Pin

This is why I should have stuck with my principles and not voted.  Voting just makes people go after you with a rolling pin.  afraidsmiley
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#57
(10-12-2012, 08:32 PM)maldon Wrote: I want him to address his successor's attitude towards VII, the same attitude he refers to as the hermeneutic of rupture.

Assuming you meant his predecessor (since presumably even il papa doesn't know who will follow him), I think you're mistaken about this.  Benedict is emphatically not referring to JP2.  He is referring to the far left and the far right in the Church-- the people who either wanted to keep pushing forward, or those who want to turn back the clock.  The latter, in his mind, is impossible.  The former may or may not be possible in the long run, but we mustn't rush things...

This is just my personal read of his views, but I think that everything except MAYBE that last sentence is a pretty sure bet.
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#58
(10-12-2012, 07:25 PM)per_passionem_eius Wrote:
(10-12-2012, 07:00 PM)Romish Papist Wrote: Might4right,

... for some reason every time you speak here I'm overcome with a feeling of almost nauseating sadness... What could it be?  Hmm...  Ah yes!  It's your profile picture!!

Me too! 

Tell the story, M4R!  Cheer us up!  Tell us the happy ending, won't you?!

The story isn't over yet per_passionem_eius, but I'm with you on hoping for a happy ending.
Who knows maybe I'll see you there.
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#59
(10-12-2012, 08:41 PM)DrBombay Wrote:
(10-12-2012, 08:39 PM)Romish Papist Wrote:
(10-12-2012, 08:36 PM)DrBombay Wrote: I voted no.   Tip o' the hat

How dare you, sir!  Rolling Pin

This is why I should have stuck with my principles and not voted.  Voting just makes people go after you with a rolling pin.   afraidsmiley

Don't count yourself so lucky!   Chainsaw Chainsaw Chainsaw Duel Draw! Draw! Sky Munster Sky Munster Sky Munster
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#60
8:54 p.m. EST.  Only a 20 vote difference.

We're going to need to examine the hanging chads!
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