Bishop's Letter regarding SSPX in Calgary, Canada
#41
(10-15-2012, 01:26 PM)ImpyTerwilliger Wrote:
(10-15-2012, 01:21 PM)Atomagenesis Wrote: But since you apparently went through RCIA then I'll just assume you are. People who grew up Catholic have a much better sense of the crisis than those who have converted recently.

We need to appreciate that adult converts to the Catholic faith have often done so precisely because of the issue of authority, which was lacking in their previous experience.  They look to the authority of the Church and they are right to do so.  As a result, however, any criticisms of that authority will seem even more of a threat to their faith itself.  We need to understand this and cut these folks some slack.  Those who come across as neocons or neo-Catholics are actually struggling for their faith when they defend these authorities.  Personally, I think they should not be here.  They are not ready for this and it does no good to them or to us.

I understand this sentiment, and I agree with it to a certain extent, but there is a certain lack of humility in recent converts and their unwillingness to take the time to research the traditionalist position, especially the SSPX and their doctrinal positions. One also needs to remember though that in the case of tradition, we must follow what St. Paul says "Hold fast to the tradition which you were taught either by word of mouth or by letter." Any priest or bishop who accepts Vatican II and the Novus Ordo, or even says it, in my opinion, goes against this direct command of St. Paul because anyone who takes the time to research, even for 5 or 6 hours in the right places, can easily come to the conclusion that the Novus Ordo is a break with tradition. With internet resources so widely available today, not one Catholic has an excuse to continue attending the Novus Ordo if they were to actually study their faith and the liturgical revolution of the 60's for more than say a week's time. That's about all it took for me.

I don't expect NO goers to convert to exclusively the TLM right away because it indeed does take time to come to certain conclusions regarding traditional Catholicism and a lot of prayer. I understand why people go to the Novus Ordo. Because it's comfortable and convenient for them to do so, even though all the saints said the TLM and one can easily see it's a break with tradition with some concentrated effort to research.

With that said, people who come to Fisheasters and other traditional catholic forums and make blanket statements regarding things they do not understand or haven't taken the time to research in humility before speaking shows a misdirected zeal for propping up the current hierarchy and trying to reconcile that current hierarchy with its major modernist problems to tradition. It simply cannot be done when one uses prayer and reason to look at the current crisis. So when it comes down to people doing those types of things, I get angry with them because they're in error, and not helping to rebuild the traditional Catholic faith, but to continue propping up a structure which is doomed to failure.
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#42
(10-15-2012, 01:28 PM)ImpyTerwilliger Wrote:
(10-15-2012, 01:23 PM)Cooler King Wrote:
(10-15-2012, 01:20 PM)ImpyTerwilliger Wrote:
(10-15-2012, 12:54 PM)Cooler King Wrote: Or do you just want to exit stage left and go to the SSPX and hear the bashing?

Those of us who actually attend SSPX chapels know that there is very little "bashing" there.  Instead, what we get is solid Catholic doctrine.

The criticisms of the Novus Ordo establishment have been more in the nature of mild asides.

I invite you to visit us sometime.

Yes, very little bashing on their website when "doctrinal talks" are in session....
:eyeroll:

Come and see.

Just another gross assumption. The best trad priests only seldom talk about the NO or crisis from the pulpit.
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#43
(10-15-2012, 01:36 PM)Atomagenesis Wrote: I don't expect NO goers to convert to exclusively the TLM right away because it indeed does take time to come to certain conclusions regarding traditional Catholicism and a lot of prayer. I understand why people go to the Novus Ordo. Because it's comfortable and convenient for them to do so, even though all the saints said the TLM and one can easily see it's a break with tradition with some concentrated effort to research.
That is an unfair declaration.
Wait 20 more years and let's see if all the declared saints attended solely the TLM.
50+ years ago there was no Novus Ordo Mass.

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#44
It's not unfair. It's reality.

And I doubt there will be any canonized saints who said the Novus Ordo exclusively. A compromise, a break with tradition. If they are canonized, it will be because they stopped saying it and came to their senses.
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#45
(10-15-2012, 01:43 PM)Atomagenesis Wrote: It's not unfair. It's reality.

And I doubt there will be any canonized saints who said the Novus Ordo. A compromise, a break with tradition.

Just wait...
"Neo-cons" as CP mentioned earlier like Blessed Bishop Fulton Sheen will be one of them.
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#46
(10-15-2012, 01:26 PM)ImpyTerwilliger Wrote:
(10-15-2012, 01:21 PM)Atomagenesis Wrote: But since you apparently went through RCIA then I'll just assume you are. People who grew up Catholic have a much better sense of the crisis than those who have converted recently.

We need to appreciate that adult converts to the Catholic faith have often converted precisely because of the issue of authority, which was lacking in their previous experience.  They look to the authority of the Church and they are right to do so.  As a result, however, any criticisms of that authority will seem a threat to their very faith.  We need to understand this and cut these folks some slack.  Those who come across as neocons or neo-Catholics are actually struggling for their faith when they defend these authorities.  Personally, I think they should not be here.  They are not ready for this and it does no good to them or to us.
Just because I stated a fact about converts does not mean that I am one.
I am a cradle Catholic.

You guys are starting to sound like scientologists. "What are your crimes?"
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#47
Well then answer my question the first time and I wouldn't have to assume things about you then get accused of assuming.  :eyeroll:
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#48
(10-15-2012, 01:45 PM)Cooler King Wrote:
(10-15-2012, 01:43 PM)Atomagenesis Wrote: It's not unfair. It's reality.

And I doubt there will be any canonized saints who said the Novus Ordo. A compromise, a break with tradition.

Just wait...
"Neo-cons" as CP mentioned earlier like Blessed Bishop Fulton Sheen will be one of them.

I'm not CP anymore.
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#49
(10-15-2012, 01:50 PM)Phillipus Iacobus Wrote:
(10-15-2012, 01:45 PM)Cooler King Wrote:
(10-15-2012, 01:43 PM)Atomagenesis Wrote: It's not unfair. It's reality.

And I doubt there will be any canonized saints who said the Novus Ordo. A compromise, a break with tradition.

Just wait...
"Neo-cons" as CP mentioned earlier like Blessed Bishop Fulton Sheen will be one of them.

I'm not CP anymore.
Duly noted. the few times we conversed in the chat room, you went by that moniker.

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#50
(10-15-2012, 12:42 PM)Atomagenesis Wrote: Crisis and State of Emergency are the same thing, and you didn't answer my question. Are you a convert?
In the sense that is being used here, no they are not the same thing.

A Crisis is the general overall description [in this sense] of a woeful lack of solid catechisis, and liturgy that is illicit and not in line with Church provisions.

An Emergency [in this sense] is a diocese or large territory with no valid priests that confect and administer valid sacraments.
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