New from the European Synod !
#21
(10-16-2012, 12:09 PM)loggats Wrote: As these people get more inculcated in European ideology, I think they'll move away from their religious roots anyway. The miasma of secularism is deeply ingrained in every facet of society, and to "get ahead" you've got to acquiesce to a lot of that. And many people who want to be successful (in this life, by the rules of the game) will do just that.

That secularism is going to die with the Europeans. The Muslims keep to themselves and to their culture. They aren't going to be inculcated into any other culture but their own. It is their Islamic culture that is going to fill the vacuum. Many cities in France and other countries are no go zones even for the police. Secularism can't survive once it kills the victim and the civilization dies out. Religion always replaces the last decaying civilization.
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#22
(10-16-2012, 09:18 AM)Tim Wrote: I think Italy is at 30 percent right now, and France isn't far behind. Maybe Ggreg can tell us if Britain has that many.  Williams of C of E has suggested that Britain allow Sharia Lawin their courts.

That is 30% of all immigrants, not of the entire population. In Italy about 1.5% of the entire population is Muslim.

From Wikipedia:

Quote:According to latest Italian official statistics, Muslims make up about 34% of the 2,400,000 foreign residents living in Italy as of January 1, 2005.To these 820,000 foreign residents of Muslim heritage legally residing in Italy, another 100,000-150,000 should be added, as Muslims represent, according to annual estimates by the Italian association Caritas, about 40% of Italy's illegal immigrants.

Despite illegal immigrants representing a minority of the Muslim presence in Italy, the issue of Islam in contemporary Italy has been linked by some political parties (particularly the 'Northern League' or 'Lega Lombarda') with immigration, and more specifically illegal immigration. Immigration has become a prominent political issue, as reports of boatloads of illegal immigrants or clandestini dominate news programmes, especially in the summertime. Police forces have not had great success in intercepting many of the thousands of clandestini who land on Italian beaches, mainly because of the sheer length of the Italian coastline, some 8,000 km in total. However, many of the clandestini landing in Italy are only using Italy as a gateway to other EU nations, due to the fact that Italy offers fewer economic opportunities and social welfare for them than Germany or France.

The number of foreign Muslims who have been granted Italian nationality is estimated between 30,000 and 50,000, while Italian converts to Islam are estimated to number less than 10,000.

Muslims represent today 1.4% of Italy's population, a percentage much lower than that of other major EU countries, and still slightly lower than that recorded in Italy between the middle of the 9th century and the end of the 13th century, before the removal of the last Muslim strongholds in Puglia in 1300.

While in Medieval times the Muslim population was almost totally concentrated in Insular (Sicily) and Southern (Calabria, Puglia) Italy, it is today more evenly distributed, with almost 55% of Muslims living in the North of Italy, 25% in the Centre, and only 20% in the South. Muslims form a lower proportion of immigrants then in previous years, as the latest statistical reports by the Italian Ministry of Interior and Caritas indicate that the share of Muslims among new immigrants has declined from over 50% at the beginning of the 1990s (mainly Albanians and Moroccans) to less than 25% in the following decade.
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#23
And here are the statistics for France:

As of 2010, according to the French Government which does not have the right to ask direct questions about religion and uses a criterion of people’s geographic origin as a basis for calculation, there is between 5 to 6 millions Muslims in metropolitan France. The government counted all those people in France who came here from countries with a dominant Muslim population, or whose parents did. Only 33% of those 5 to 6 million people (2 million) said they were practicing believers. That figure is the same as that obtained by the INED/INSEE study in October 2010.[1]

The United States Department of State placed it at roughly 10%,[2] while two 2007 polls estimated it at about 3% of the total population.[3] The CIA World Factbook places it at 5–10%.[4]
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#24
Actually, what has more or less happened is that the Muslims are in the gap where Jews used to be in Europe; significant numbers, but still marginal.  And will continue to be so as they eagerly embrace contraception.  Demographics are destiny, for Europeans and for Muslims.
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#25
(10-16-2012, 09:18 AM)Tim Wrote: Maybe Ggreg can tell us if Britain has that many.

tim

England is at 3%, Scotland at about 1.8% and Northern Ireland has so few as to be statistically insignificant.
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#26
In part this is a result of the 'contraceptive mentality' that Pope Paul VI warned about in his encyclical Humanae Vitae.
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#27
(10-17-2012, 03:05 AM)Poche Wrote: In part this is a result of the 'contraceptive mentality' that Pope Paul VI warned about in his encyclical Humanae Vitae.

Exactly ! Poche !  I marvel at the fact that, whether it's the North Americans or the Europeans, all close their eyes and pretend this is a okay. Disregarding the number of Mohammedans, the Western Civilization or what is left of Christ's Church there, is in a death spiral, entirely caused by the embrace of contraception by most Catholics. It has led to the embrace of abortion in the same numbers as the secularits. No more excuses, those aren't Catholics, and the Bishop silence has promoted this, and the Schism promoted by the NWO.

tim
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#28
We are all in a death spiral. Nobody gets out alive.
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#29
(10-16-2012, 12:27 PM)SaintRafael Wrote:
(10-16-2012, 12:09 PM)loggats Wrote: As these people get more inculcated in European ideology, I think they'll move away from their religious roots anyway. The miasma of secularism is deeply ingrained in every facet of society, and to "get ahead" you've got to acquiesce to a lot of that. And many people who want to be successful (in this life, by the rules of the game) will do just that.

That secularism is going to die with the Europeans. The Muslims keep to themselves and to their culture. They aren't going to be inculcated into any other culture but their own. It is their Islamic culture that is going to fill the vacuum. Many cities in France and other countries are no go zones even for the police. Secularism can't survive once it kills the victim and the civilization dies out. Religion always replaces the last decaying civilization.

I don't know. It seems that many Muslims have been taken in by modern culture. For instance, many young European Muslims have borrowed rap music and other elements of American black culture (though of course even young "hardline" traditionalists love their rap music). Muslim identity does seem to be important to them, but at this point I think it serves more as a way to separate themselves from mainstream European society. It sets up a nice us-versus-them situation, so Muslims will still pose a threat to Europe even if they do mostly give up the teachings of Islam. All of this shows how destructive secularism really is. It has already basically destroyed Christianity, and now it appears that it will eventually do the same to Islam, even if the liberal West collapses in the process. At this point, we have to wonder if anything can successfully resist the secular, technological, consumeristic culture of modernity.
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#30
(10-22-2012, 02:37 AM)Crusading Philologist Wrote: ([T]hough of course even young "hardline" traditionalists love their rap music).

:tiphat:
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