So, I've been thinking...
... trad parents.  Do they even want the next generations of traditionalists to be married and produce more traditionalists?  LOL

If they do... could've fooled me.
What do you mean?
What are you talking about?

I think we are missing some context here, LWRT.
In my experience, I've not seen many trad ladies afoot at trad chapels. 

And if they are there, they are typically there with their families.  Which makes for a HORRIBLE approach/opening.
(10-15-2012, 05:37 PM)CollegeCatholic Wrote: In my experience, I've not seen many trad ladies afoot at trad chapels. 

And if they are there, they are typically there with their families.  Which makes for a HORRIBLE approach/opening.

I don't see the problem there.  Getting on good terms with the parents will most likely cause well-balanced and spiritually-mature woman to view a young man more favorably.  If for some reason she doesn't like it then she's probably not a promising future wife anyhow.
Two points to make here.

It seems trad parents have a sort of list they expect for their daughters.

***He goes to confession and Mass. Check***

***He has a prayer life. Check***

***He is traditional in his doctrinal beliefs concerning the Church, marriage, raising children, educating them, etc.***

***Our daughter likes him***

At this point I would say I meet the above requirements coming across trad girls and their families.  But...

It seems there's a *secret* list.  An unwritten one that undermines the hierarchy of needs.  One would think the above are of utmost importance.  Apparently not.

I have suspicions.  Is it that I'm poor?  Is it that I'm not a "WASPy looking"/tuck your shirt in/Leave it to Beaver 1950's guy(I dress up for Mass, and my regular clothes are pretty... normal, no sagging pants, no obscene images on shirts)? Is it that I listen to rock music(not screaming Satanic death metal or anything THAT bad)?  Is it that my family is nominally Catholic at best?  Is it that I'm not the picturesque, prep school, corporate type that would look great in a family photo?

Eh.  My current girlfriend (who I'm talking through "tradversion") didn't bother going through her parents' approval to date me.  Each of them seems to like and dislike things about me.  One point of conflict I have with her mom is that I'm not a devout follower of the holy prophets of Fox News.


What about America's economic, political and cultural history of unwritten, institutional anti-Catholicism?  Trad parents are too pro-Republican.  What about Christendom?  What about Catholic social doctrines?  Capitalism isn't Catholic, it's a philosophy of (at best) Protestants and (at worst) atheists.  Same goes for the Enlightenment and this notion of government for and by the people.  Where are the parents educating their children for the eventual counter-revolution that Catholics will HAVE TO fight.  And they will fight, a nation whose founding principles remove both God AND His Church from their fundamental functions is destined to fail. 

Patriotism is a virtue.  Nationalism is a heresy.  Do you love your land and people?  You should, you're Catholic.  Do you love them enough to not let them suffer the fate they're destined for if they persist in maintaining the status quo of "rule of man by man"?

Christendom and Catholicism do well together.  One's success is (normally) indicative of the other's. 

In Mexico, during the Cristiada conflict (which was NOT fought for "religious liberty", but for "liberty of the Church", there's an IMPORTANT difference between the two) Catholic mothers would joyfully prepare their sons for battle, knowing that death in battle would very likely mean a martyr's death for them, the Catholic rebels being poorly armed and greatly outnumbered in the beginning stages of the conflict.  Husbands marching into battle would happily proclaim that they didn't fear death in battle, knowing that God would provide for their families.

It's hard for me to imagine trad parents in the US nowadays having the same mindset. 

Sure, many of them homeschool.  And that may provide a much better education for your kids than public education can.  How many parents here teach their kids about Christendom?  About the sacrifice and effort to build it?  About how the world we live in now, with it's politics, economics and culture, DESTROYED Christendom?  About how we MUST rebuild?

Vote Republican!  Vote MURRRRCAN! typically what I hear after Mass.  Diocesan Masses, independent chapels, even... SSPX chapels. :/  Eh.  Don't get me wrong, I *do* meet fellow counter-revolutionaries more often at SSPX chapels, but the Murrca crowd has a significant presence in the SSPX. 

(As a side note (THAT MEANS PLEASE DON'T DERAIL THE THREAD WITH THIS POINT I'M ABOUT TO MAKE) the compromisers in the SSPX are often also of the Murrca crowd mentality.  I wonder, what are they even doing there?

Side note.  Start another thread if you want to discuss that.


To continue my second point: The Church and it's civilization (Christendom) must be restored together.  Sure, the counter-revolution is being fought by those who refuse to go to the Novus Ordo.  This is only ONE part, the doctrinal part, of the counter-revolution, another (also VITAL) part being the political counter-revolution, which Catholics at large refuse to fight.

Vote against this!  Vote against that!  Well, in another few years, any victory of making something conform to Church teaching you got can be overturned by another election.  Some system of government you got there, PFFT!

Of course, "fight" doesn't mean a call to arms and full scale military conflict.  Eventually, that may be the case, but I do believe counter-revolution (the restoration of Christendom) can be achieved by non-military means... if only American Catholics WANTED it. 

Trad parents, why don't you want it?  Enough of this "oh, it's impossible".  Christ did the impossible.  As Christians we are called to follow Him, are we not?  Through Him nothing is impossible.  It's one thing to want it and not think it's possible, it's quite another to NOT want it because you think it's not possible.

My apologies if my tone seems hostile, but it IS frustrating.  And it seems traditionalism WILL unravel and die out unless we remain tightly intertwined with the effort of counter-revolution in both doctrine and the restoration of the Catholic state.  I'm not saying it was ever perfect, but it was certainly better, in that we could at least point to what someone was SUPPOSED to be doing whenever they weren't doing their governmental job well.
Sorry to hear that. Is talking politics really necessary? I generally avoid political discussions unless I'm with friends or on the Internet. I certainly wouldn't talk about it with prospective in-laws unless they really wanted to know what I think on such-and-such a topic.
Parents are parents.  Most of them never think the young man in question is acceptable.  Remember that they are out to protect their little girl and there is no man on earth good enough for her. Sorry, but that's how they think.  Pilgrim could tell you horror stories about meeting my parents and he flew to Paris to meet them.  Fast forward a few years and the mother-in-law who accused him of being an alcoholic because he had a drink on an airplane is now shouting his praises and tells me that he is a very, very good man.  It took a while but she finally agrees with me.

Perhaps the problem is that the ladies you have met so far don't see you as something worth fighting with their parents about.  It is possible that trad girls (I certainly wasn't raised this way) are not forceful enough when it comes to expressing their opinions.  They may listen to their parents more than you'd like.  Then again, maybe you haven't met Miss Right just yet.
My daughter is only 12 and I am already thinking about how I will make her suitors' lives a living hell.

Quote: My daughter is only 12 and I am already thinking about how I will make her suitors' lives a living hell.

By the time she is 17, you'll be rooting for the guys.  Good luck.  Don't allow dating.  But allow group gatherings where adults are present so she can socialize.  As you have to step in and say "No", your daughter will not like it much.  Do the right thing, it turns out in the end.  However, HAVE THE BALANCE.  Find ways that your daughter can socialize and have friends, and learn to talk with boys in a "safe" environment.  We did it through swing dancing (where parents and teens both go) and youth group type stuff.  However, absolutely no one-on-one dating, because every 16 year old boy is after ONE THING.  And wife can't even conceive of the magnitude of that.

Getting back to the post, yes, you're ability to provide for your wife and family factor very high with the DAD.  If you can not demonstrate this, or at least have a feasible plan (attending college to be an engineer), you have little hope with a Trad DAD.  Whatever you do, don't talk about your dreams to be a blacksmith providing era recreated swords and armaments for Hollywood films.  And don't talk about your dreams to build Hobbiton where you want to provide for your family with 5 acres of farming and CSA.  Or how you reject the economic world and will wait around til the guild shows up to give you a job.  You'll go down in flames with DAD.

Here's my advise to men starting out.  FORGET WOMEN for a few years and get established.  Have a goal to save $20,000 in 2 years.  This will change you and the women will notice.  You will project responsibility. 

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