What's wrong with the traditional Latinist movement
#21
What irony that such beautiful expressions of mercy should be so unkindly applied. Somehow I think the saints who said these things would not have used them as judgmental weapons against Latin Catholics as a group. They would surely see all approved rites as belonging to the same Catholic Church. Even if they saw faults they would speak of them with mercy and thank God for the good that is also there.
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#22
(10-19-2012, 12:32 AM)Doce Me Wrote: Somehow I think the saints who said these things would not have used them as judgmental weapons against Latin Catholics as a group.

Except maybe for 'Saint' Tikhon who, as an Orthodox schismatic, probably hated our guts.
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#23
(10-19-2012, 01:59 AM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(10-19-2012, 12:32 AM)Doce Me Wrote: Somehow I think the saints who said these things would not have used them as judgmental weapons against Latin Catholics as a group.

Except maybe for 'Saint' Tikhon who, as an Orthodox schismatic, probably hated our guts.

Where he is now, he hates us even more-so.
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#24
(10-19-2012, 05:27 AM)TS Aquinas Wrote:
(10-19-2012, 01:59 AM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(10-19-2012, 12:32 AM)Doce Me Wrote: Somehow I think the saints who said these things would not have used them as judgmental weapons against Latin Catholics as a group.

Except maybe for 'Saint' Tikhon who, as an Orthodox schismatic, probably hated our guts.

Where he is now, he hates us even more-so.

That's not your judgement to make.
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#25
(10-22-2012, 03:32 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(10-19-2012, 05:27 AM)TS Aquinas Wrote:
(10-19-2012, 01:59 AM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(10-19-2012, 12:32 AM)Doce Me Wrote: Somehow I think the saints who said these things would not have used them as judgmental weapons against Latin Catholics as a group.

Except maybe for 'Saint' Tikhon who, as an Orthodox schismatic, probably hated our guts.

Where he is now, he hates us even more-so.

That's not your judgement to make.

You are correct, it is the Church's judgement

Quote:Pope Eugene IV and the Council of Florence (A.D. 1438 – 1445): “The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart `into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ (Matt. 25:41), unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”
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#26
(10-22-2012, 03:32 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(10-19-2012, 05:27 AM)TS Aquinas Wrote:
(10-19-2012, 01:59 AM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(10-19-2012, 12:32 AM)Doce Me Wrote: Somehow I think the saints who said these things would not have used them as judgmental weapons against Latin Catholics as a group.

Except maybe for 'Saint' Tikhon who, as an Orthodox schismatic, probably hated our guts.

Where he is now, he hates us even more-so.

That's not your judgement to make.

Absolutely agree.
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#27
(10-22-2012, 04:11 PM)TS Aquinas Wrote:
(10-22-2012, 03:32 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(10-19-2012, 05:27 AM)TS Aquinas Wrote:
(10-19-2012, 01:59 AM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(10-19-2012, 12:32 AM)Doce Me Wrote: Somehow I think the saints who said these things would not have used them as judgmental weapons against Latin Catholics as a group.

Except maybe for 'Saint' Tikhon who, as an Orthodox schismatic, probably hated our guts.

Where he is now, he hates us even more-so.

That's not your judgement to make.

You are correct, it is the Church's judgement

Quote:Pope Eugene IV and the Council of Florence (A.D. 1438 – 1445): “The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart `into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ (Matt. 25:41), unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”
Do you know that he was schismatic at the instant of his death?
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#28
(10-22-2012, 04:11 PM)TS Aquinas Wrote: You are correct, it is the Church's judgement

No, it's God's.
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#29
(10-22-2012, 05:03 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(10-22-2012, 04:11 PM)TS Aquinas Wrote: You are correct, it is the Church's judgement

No, it's God's.

Who has infallibly spoke through the Church that no one remaining in communion with her is saved.
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#30
(10-22-2012, 05:03 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(10-22-2012, 04:11 PM)TS Aquinas Wrote: You are correct, it is the Church's judgement

No, it's God's.

Let's just clarify that the Church does have the power from Jesus to bind and loose in the person of the Pope (Mt 16:19), and the college of bishops together under the Pope (Mt 18:18-19). The Church may judge with Christ's authority, and God will execute that judgement. But we for our part should not take that upon our lowly selves, but leave it up to God in His wisdom.
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