Boniface on Pope on Nostra Aetate
#11
(10-20-2012, 06:10 PM)Crusading Philologist Wrote: It's a good article. I'm glad that we are starting to see more reasonable and intelligent critiques of Vatican II. The various neo-fascist arguments weren't going anywhere.

Neo-Fascist?
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#12
Criticism of the documents of the Second Vatican Council is valid only when it is offered by the Holy Father.

See also: Genetic fallacy.
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#13
(10-20-2012, 06:54 PM)SouthpawLink Wrote: Criticism of the documents of the Second Vatican Council is valid only when it is offered by the Holy Father.

See also: Genetic fallacy.

LOL
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#14
Not sure where I said that the pope is the only one who can criticize Vatican II. The point is that there are reasonable criticisms to be made, but the neo-fascist ones are certainly not amongst them.

(10-20-2012, 07:25 PM)JuniorCouncilor Wrote: LOL

:LOL:
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#15
(10-20-2012, 06:10 PM)Crusading Philologist Wrote: It's a good article. I'm glad that we are starting to see more reasonable and intelligent critiques of Vatican II. The various neo-fascist arguments weren't going anywhere.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by neo-fascist arguments? Does the promotion of scuttling the whole Council itself a part of these arguments?
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#16
No, I don't think wanting to scuttle the entire Council is inherently fascist.
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#17
Christknight104 Wrote:
CollegeCatholic Wrote:Neo-Fascist?

I wonder what this term means... Crusading Philologist?
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#18
(10-20-2012, 08:22 PM)Crusading Philologist Wrote: No, I don't think wanting to scuttle the entire Council is inherently fascist.

Then why being up that remark? As my grandfather would say, "Cállase la boca, compadre."
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#19
Maybe I'm missing something but I can't help feeling there's a bit of wishful thinking going on in Boniface's post.  Isn't it quite a stretch from Benedict's words to what the Church has traditionally taught about non-Catholic religions?

Quote:[Nostra aetate] disregards the sick and distorted forms of religion

The Pope doesn't say "sick and distorted non-Catholic religions" or even "elements of non-Catholic religions which are sick and distorted".  He uses the blandly generic term "of religion" and makes it clear this applies to Christianity ("The Christian faith ... adopted a critical stance towards religion, both internally and externally").

I would guess he has in mind 'fundamentalist', 'atavistic', 'intolerant' religion and regrets Nostra aetate failed to predict the resurgence of these illiberal currents.

Quote: With developments in philosophical thought and in ways of undstanding the modern State, the doctrine of tolerance, as worked out in detail by Pius XII, no longer seemed sufficient.  At stake was the freedom to choose and practise religion and the freedom to change it, as fundamental human rights and freedoms. ... The Christian faith demanded freedom of religious belief and freedom of religious practice in worship ... To this extent, it can be said that Christianity, at its birth, brought the principle of religious freedom into the world.

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#20
(10-21-2012, 06:14 AM)Cambrensis Wrote: The Pope doesn't say "sick and distorted non-Catholic religions" or even "elements of non-Catholic religions which are sick and distorted".  He uses the blandly generic term "of religion" and makes it clear this applies to Christianity ("The Christian faith ... adopted a critical stance towards religion, both internally and externally").

I think you're overlooking the internal problem among Christians. First, he uses "religion" in the normal sense of the word, to encompass any religion's sick and distorted forms, not just Islam's. That includes Christianity. Any conversion of man will start right with those who call themselves "Christian". That is why he said internal and external. Examples include the the Muslims extremists who burn buildings, etc. Or the groups like the disgusting and unChristian Westboro church that carry signs that say "Fags go to Hell", or that special one outside the funeral "Pray for more dead soldiers", "God hates you". These methods drive people away from Christ. I actually doubt they wish people to come to Christ when using these methods. They want to foment/hasten the end-times.

[Image: Westboro-Baptist-Church_500_333_70.jpg]

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