Everyone forgives them? I hope
#1
It can be very easy to be furious about the things that have happened in the church.

If can also be very easy to want retribution for anything we have personally suffered. 
I just got done uploading this weeks homily from the 1800s on forgiving injuries here are some of my highlights
http://www.alleluiaaudiobooks.com/short-...-injuries/

We should strive to forgive offences the moment they are committed against us. Our natural impulse when any insult is offered to us is to resent it at once, and pay back in the same coin. How different is this from the example set us by our Lord, ” Who, when he was reviled, did not revile; when he suffered, he threatened not.”

We must also “lay aside all malice,” and be ready, when an injury has been done, to be reconciled with our offending brother. This is often very hard for us to do, and very repugnant to our natural inclinations, but it is, nevertheless, absolutely necessary. If we bear malice towards anyone, we are not worthy of the name of Christians, or followers of Christ.

There is nothing more scandalous and injurious to the Christian name than constant quarrels and long-continued animosities between those who go regularly to the sacraments.

What steps do you use to forgive someone when your natural inclination is against it?
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#2
(10-20-2012, 09:55 PM)nmoerbeek Wrote: It can be very easy to be furious about the things that have happened in the church.

If can also be very easy to want retribution for anything we have personally suffered. 
I just got done uploading this weeks homily from the 1800s on forgiving injuries here are some of my highlights
http://www.alleluiaaudiobooks.com/short-...-injuries/

We should strive to forgive offences the moment they are committed against us. Our natural impulse when any insult is offered to us is to resent it at once, and pay back in the same coin. How different is this from the example set us by our Lord, ” Who, when he was reviled, did not revile; when he suffered, he threatened not.”

We must also “lay aside all malice,” and be ready, when an injury has been done, to be reconciled with our offending brother. This is often very hard for us to do, and very repugnant to our natural inclinations, but it is, nevertheless, absolutely necessary. If we bear malice towards anyone, we are not worthy of the name of Christians, or followers of Christ.

There is nothing more scandalous and injurious to the Christian name than constant quarrels and long-continued animosities between those who go regularly to the sacraments.

What steps do you use to forgive someone when your natural inclination is against it?

Natural inclination to return with an offense when offended? Prove that this is natural (an inclination created by God that is part of our essence) and define this please.
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#3
(10-20-2012, 10:08 PM)TS Aquinas Wrote: Natural inclination to return with an offense when offended? Prove that this is natural (an inclination created by God that is part of our essence) and define this please.

The stain of original sin is a part of human nature, TS.  http://www.newadvent.org/summa/2081.htm
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#4
http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/200512...emies.html
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#5
(10-20-2012, 10:08 PM)TS Aquinas Wrote:
(10-20-2012, 09:55 PM)nmoerbeek Wrote: It can be very easy to be furious about the things that have happened in the church.

If can also be very easy to want retribution for anything we have personally suffered. 
I just got done uploading this weeks homily from the 1800s on forgiving injuries here are some of my highlights
http://www.alleluiaaudiobooks.com/short-...-injuries/

We should strive to forgive offences the moment they are committed against us. Our natural impulse when any insult is offered to us is to resent it at once, and pay back in the same coin. How different is this from the example set us by our Lord, ” Who, when he was reviled, did not revile; when he suffered, he threatened not.”

We must also “lay aside all malice,” and be ready, when an injury has been done, to be reconciled with our offending brother. This is often very hard for us to do, and very repugnant to our natural inclinations, but it is, nevertheless, absolutely necessary. If we bear malice towards anyone, we are not worthy of the name of Christians, or followers of Christ.

There is nothing more scandalous and injurious to the Christian name than constant quarrels and long-continued animosities between those who go regularly to the sacraments.

What steps do you use to forgive someone when your natural inclination is against it?

Natural inclination to return with an offense when offended? Prove that this is natural (an inclination created by God that is part of our essence) and define this please.

My Friend I did not write that homily, it comes straight from a priest in the 1800's
Here is a copy of the transcript
http://www.alleluiaaudiobooks.com/transc...-injuries/
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#6
I try to think of how I deserve the injuries I receive as punishment for the sins I've committed.  And to go around being angry with others will only prevent us from maintaining or acquiring virtues, and will instead foster more acts of vice.

All good points, Gerard.  There are certain circumstances in which we ought to immediately rebuke the offender, either to prevent him from sinning more, or to prevent others from taking scandal.  And sometimes it only makes sense that we demand that the offender repay our losses as a result of his actions.  This is called satisfaction/reparation.

P.S. - Self-defense is an obligation of justice.  We must think of the state of our souls and also of those who are under our care (viz. the wife and kids).
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#7
Forgiveness has been perverted into a "roll over" and be a victim mentality. 

There is nothing against forgiveness that excludes a seeking of justice. 

There is nothing of malice in defending yourself from injustices. 

My patron, St. Gerard Majella was victimized by a temporary superior, he obeyed a series of abusive and vile commands designed to humiliate, hurt  and denigrate him. (eg. lick the pavestones in the form of the cross, which bloodied up his tongue severely, this could also be interpreted as being told to do something sacrilegious)  His regular superior St. Alphonsus Ligouri was troubled on multiple occasions by this subjective humility that could just as easily be misconstrued as participating in another's sin.  Not offering correction to a superior and instead letting him wallow in his evil acts. 

Forgiving people is one thing, that means you can let it go without resentment (which is feeling the offense over and over) but that doesn't mean you don't have the moral right to protect yourself or seek out justice and at the very least remove yourself from the influence of the injuring party. 

The point of forgiveness is to put a stop to evil through revenge.  Seeking justice, fortifying your own defenses and protecting yourself from continued victimization are also methods of putting a stop to evil. 

Just lying there and letting Jack the Ripper kill you for your sins simply doesn't seem right vs. fighting to stop Jack the Ripper from committing more sins and spreading evil to other victims and their friends and families.

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#8
According to the Catholic church, anyone can be forgiven, no matter what one had done in one's life.  Can anyone on this board forgive Adolf Hitler?  Do think that God forgave him if he asked for forgiveness before he shot himself? 
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#9
(10-21-2012, 06:27 AM)jacobhalo Wrote: According to the Catholic church, anyone can be forgiven, no matter what one had done in one's life.  Can anyone on this board forgive Adolf Hitler?  Do think that God forgave him if he asked for forgiveness before he shot himself? 

God can forgive whom He wants and He's all-merciful and is Love Itself, so...
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#10
(10-21-2012, 12:11 AM)Gerard Wrote: Forgiveness has been perverted into a "roll over" and be a victim mentality. 

There is nothing against forgiveness that excludes a seeking of justice. 

There is nothing of malice in defending yourself from injustices. 

My patron, St. Gerard Majella was victimized by a temporary superior, he obeyed a series of abusive and vile commands designed to humiliate, hurt  and denigrate him. (eg. lick the pavestones in the form of the cross, which bloodied up his tongue severely, this could also be interpreted as being told to do something sacrilegious)   His regular superior St. Alphonsus Ligouri was troubled on multiple occasions by this subjective humility that could just as easily be misconstrued as participating in another's sin.  Not offering correction to a superior and instead letting him wallow in his evil acts. 

Forgiving people is one thing, that means you can let it go without resentment (which is feeling the offense over and over) but that doesn't mean you don't have the moral right to protect yourself or seek out justice and at the very least remove yourself from the influence of the injuring party. 

The point of forgiveness is to put a stop to evil through revenge.  Seeking justice, fortifying your own defenses and protecting yourself from continued victimization are also methods of putting a stop to evil. 

Just lying there and letting Jack the Ripper kill you for your sins simply doesn't seem right vs. fighting to stop Jack the Ripper from committing more sins and spreading evil to other victims and their friends and families.

I agree with most of what you said.  However, in the parable of the servant we see of an example of when we demand justice.  Someone might rip me off of 20 dollars and in justice he should be punished but forgiveness is better unless I desire strict justice from God.  With that being said If that is my last 20 dollars and i have to feed my family, I might just have to forcibly take that money back.
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