Bp. Williamson's Oct. 19, '12, open letter to Bp. Fellay, "On an 'Exclusion'"
#61
At least come up w your own pundits joni

I think bp W is wrong about the holycaust but he says nothing uncatholic about th jews.
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Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
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#62
(10-26-2012, 10:59 AM)JoniCath Wrote: Bishop Williamson not only makes a fool of himself with his ridiculous statements:

Jews and Holocaust denial
Williamson condemns the Jews.[48] He called them the "enemies of Christ" and urges their conversion to Catholicism.

It is ridiculous to include this with Holocaust denial. Every Catholic ought to be urging the conversion of Jews to Catholicism.  It is neither anti-Semitic nor foolish.  
(It is also correct to refer to Jews as "enemies of Christ"  although admittedly that is open to misunderstanding and requires further qualification.)

This anti-Semitism charge has nothing to do with Bishop Wiliamson's exclusion from the Society and was not mentioned in his letter to Bishop Fellay.  It is ridiculous that this topic keeps coming up.
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#63
(10-26-2012, 12:06 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: At least come up w your own pundits joni

I think bp W is wrong about the holycaust but he says nothing uncatholic about th jews.

I agree.  Joni forgot the attribution . She was quoting Wikipedia  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Wil...8bishop%29

The authors of the article clearly have no idea what Catholics ought to believe.
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#64
(10-26-2012, 12:13 PM)JayneK Wrote: This anti-Semitism charge has nothing to do with Bishop Wiliamson's exclusion from the Society and was not mentioned in his letter to Bishop Fellay.  It is ridiculous that this topic keeps coming up.

It is relevant, inasmuch as that was the flame which lit the fuse which just blew a few days ago. That event showed such lack of prudence and circumspection that it immediately called his entire validity as a teacher in question. If he can put his foot in his mouth this much, even acknowledging that it was illegal (which proves he knew exactly what he was doing), it made me wonder what other topics he was completely wrong about, and other topics he was willing to speak about with such lack of prudence and circumspection. And, of course, everyone knows this, which is why the SSPX went into PR damage control. He made amends, apparently, but seeing as it ultimately was on his terms, since when the rubber met the road, he wasn't willing to follow and do what was required of him. And I think this was coming for years. Williamson is ultimately a conspiracy theorist, who has fit everything into his New World Order/End Times view, and if you're not on board, you need to just get out of the way. The "true faith" is not Catholicism, but Catholicism as viewed through the prism of conspiracy theories. That is not the official SSPX line, so when they seek accord with Newrome, the essential seat of the antiChrist (whether now or soon, one view being the second beast is a Pope), then you are giving in to Balal, to the New World Order, to Freemasonry, to the (now or future) antiChrist essentially. And what's to lose? He only sees a global chastisement, fire from heaven, as the only solution. So caution to the wind in matters of the concrete authorities, because it is like fire in a house, you're just high tailing it. A cautionary tale this.
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#65
(10-26-2012, 12:53 PM)Scriptorium Wrote:
(10-26-2012, 12:13 PM)JayneK Wrote: This anti-Semitism charge has nothing to do with Bishop Wiliamson's exclusion from the Society and was not mentioned in his letter to Bishop Fellay.  It is ridiculous that this topic keeps coming up.

It is relevant, inasmuch as that was the flame which lit the fuse which just blew a few days ago. That event showed such lack of prudence and circumspection that it immediately called his entire validity as a teacher in question. If he can put his foot in his mouth this much, even acknowledging that it was illegal (which proves he knew exactly what he was doing), it made me wonder what other topics he was completely wrong about, and other topics he was willing to speak about with such lack of prudence and circumspection.

Virtually every religious society or order goes through a time after the death of their founder in which differing understandings of the founding vision compete with each other.  That is what is happening to the SSPX now.  There are two competing visions for the Society.  There are two understandings of the relationship with Rome. Bishop Williamson is the representative of one side and Bishop Fellay is the representative of the other.  Their conflict is inevitable.

If Bishop Williamson had never made public comments about the Holocaust, there is every reason to believe that we would be seeing the exact same situation as we do now.  This issue is a red herring.
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#66
Geremia, thank you for posting this! I've been looking for it fruitlessly.

As for the rest, I have just this to say:

 :eyeroll::doh: :popcorn:

(Translation: Oh, brother. Here we go again. Time to sit back and watch the show...)
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#67
(10-26-2012, 01:47 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(10-26-2012, 12:53 PM)Scriptorium Wrote:
(10-26-2012, 12:13 PM)JayneK Wrote: This anti-Semitism charge has nothing to do with Bishop Wiliamson's exclusion from the Society and was not mentioned in his letter to Bishop Fellay.  It is ridiculous that this topic keeps coming up.

It is relevant, inasmuch as that was the flame which lit the fuse which just blew a few days ago. That event showed such lack of prudence and circumspection that it immediately called his entire validity as a teacher in question. If he can put his foot in his mouth this much, even acknowledging that it was illegal (which proves he knew exactly what he was doing), it made me wonder what other topics he was completely wrong about, and other topics he was willing to speak about with such lack of prudence and circumspection.

Virtually every religious society or order goes through a time after the death of their founder in which differing understandings of the founding vision compete with each other.  That is what is happening to the SSPX now.  There are two competing visions for the Society.  There are two understandings of the relationship with Rome. Bishop Williamson is the representative of one side and Bishop Fellay is the representative of the other.  Their conflict is inevitable.

If Bishop Williamson had never made public comments about the Holocaust, there is every reason to believe that we would be seeing the exact same situation as we do now.  This issue is a red herring.

Indeed.  His support of sketchy pseudo-mystics, his flagrant disobedience of his superior, and other issues matter way more than the video kerfluffle.
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#68
:popcorn:
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#69
(10-26-2012, 01:53 PM)Parmandur Wrote:
(10-26-2012, 01:47 PM)JayneK Wrote: Virtually every religious society or order goes through a time after the death of their founder in which differing understandings of the founding vision compete with each other.  That is what is happening to the SSPX now.  There are two competing visions for the Society.  There are two understandings of the relationship with Rome. Bishop Williamson is the representative of one side and Bishop Fellay is the representative of the other.  Their conflict is inevitable.

If Bishop Williamson had never made public comments about the Holocaust, there is every reason to believe that we would be seeing the exact same situation as we do now.  This issue is a red herring.

Indeed.  His support of sketchy pseudo-mystics, his flagrant disobedience of his superior, and other issues matter way more than the video kerfluffle.

From what I've heard, he brings many strengths to being a bishop and has helped many people.  I do not think it is necessary to portray him as a bad guy in this situation.
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#70
(10-26-2012, 02:39 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(10-26-2012, 01:53 PM)Parmandur Wrote:
(10-26-2012, 01:47 PM)JayneK Wrote: Virtually every religious society or order goes through a time after the death of their founder in which differing understandings of the founding vision compete with each other.  That is what is happening to the SSPX now.  There are two competing visions for the Society.  There are two understandings of the relationship with Rome. Bishop Williamson is the representative of one side and Bishop Fellay is the representative of the other.  Their conflict is inevitable.

If Bishop Williamson had never made public comments about the Holocaust, there is every reason to believe that we would be seeing the exact same situation as we do now.  This issue is a red herring.

Indeed.  His support of sketchy pseudo-mystics, his flagrant disobedience of his superior, and other issues matter way more than the video kerfluffle.

From what I've heard, he brings many strengths to being a bishop and has helped many people.  I do not think it is necessary to portray him as a bad guy in this situation.

Well, people seem quite eager to paint him as some sort of martyr, when he has simply reaped what he has sown.
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