Smoking pot a mortal sin
#71
(10-30-2012, 10:41 PM)knittycat Wrote: LOL! Yeah...
But you drink a wine because it tastes good.  If you just wanted to get drunk, you'd drink everclear.  You'd get drunk so much faster!  Yes, the buzz is part of the appeal, but it's not *why* you drink.  Right?

If I harken back to my days, schwag was not a pleasure. It was the good stuff which was enjoyable, looked really cool, and smelled very nice. The other stuff just killed the throat. Maybe that's good at curbing the habit, so to speak.
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#72
I suppose that would be like some of those quadruple bocks I've seen then.  I'm sure they taste very nice, but the alcohol content is so high I just can't drink a whole bottle without getting a serious buzz, and you can forget about two!  Shiner is nice, and it's got a standard alcohol content, and it doesn't taste like crap (a-la coors and bud. Ick, but if you're poor and just want to get drunk...)
I really don't know more than I've been told and what I see when it comes to pot.  I do like the smell of what some of the folks smoke, occasionally one comes up that smells like skunk.  It seems the skunk smelling stuff is the pot equivalent of coors light.  It tastes (and smells) like crap, but you really want to get stoned.
The stuff that smells like sweet alfalfa seems to be the stuff that the ren-folks smoke to enjoy.
The hydro I've encountered smells nice, but the people who smoke it get stoned so fast they don't have a chance to really enjoy it before they just zone out.

Oddly enough, back in the day, I had coke, but never smoked pot.  I really can't tell you what the taste is.  But it sure can smell nice.
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#73
That's why they call it the bomb skunk.  It reeks.  Never understood anyone who said it smells good. 
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#74
(10-30-2012, 10:04 PM)knittycat Wrote: I am curious as to where in the catechism it refers to intoxication as a sin.  I assume it is, and I assume that consuming any substance with the intent of intoxication is sinful, however, I'd like to see infallible instruction on the subject.

(10-30-2012, 10:08 PM)per_passionem_eius Wrote: knittycat, this was posted earlier in the thread.

(10-30-2012, 08:40 PM)Doce Me Wrote: Getting drunk is a mortal sin. At what point is the effect of smoking pot as bad as that of getting drunk? Usually (I hope) when people drink they only want a relatively mild effect.  Is that true for people who smoke pot?

However you compare pot vs. alcohol, The Catechism of the Catholic Church certainly can't be just ignored (even if you want to ignore the SSPX).  If you don' t like the CCC, previous teaching would only be stricter.

"Catechism of the Catholic Church" Wrote:2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others' safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.

2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

I assume when the CCC says using drugs is a grave offense, it means a mortal sin.  It is not talking about their legality, but about the damage they do.
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#75
(10-30-2012, 10:52 PM)Doce Me Wrote:
(10-30-2012, 10:04 PM)knittycat Wrote: I am curious as to where in the catechism it refers to intoxication as a sin.  I assume it is, and I assume that consuming any substance with the intent of intoxication is sinful, however, I'd like to see infallible instruction on the subject.

(10-30-2012, 10:08 PM)per_passionem_eius Wrote: knittycat, this was posted earlier in the thread.

(10-30-2012, 08:40 PM)Doce Me Wrote: Getting drunk is a mortal sin. At what point is the effect of smoking pot as bad as that of getting drunk? Usually (I hope) when people drink they only want a relatively mild effect.  Is that true for people who smoke pot?

However you compare pot vs. alcohol, The Catechism of the Catholic Church certainly can't be just ignored (even if you want to ignore the SSPX).  If you don' t like the CCC, previous teaching would only be stricter.

"Catechism of the Catholic Church" Wrote:2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others' safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.

2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

I assume when the CCC says using drugs is a grave offense, it means a mortal sin.  It is not talking about their legality, but about the damage they do.

I believe I covered that concern here



(10-30-2012, 10:26 PM)knittycat Wrote: I think I may need to clarify.
Heroine, pills, speed, 'shrooms, lsd, and cocaine, by their nature (being nasty) are never something that can be enjoyed for the substance it's self.  The goal of consuming these drugs is the high they provide, thereby making the purpose of taking such drugs purely for their intoxicating effect, therefore making it sinful to partake of them.
I posit that marijuana can be consumed for the enjoyment of the substance it's self, rather than the goal of intoxication.  Much like tobacco and alcohol.  Therefore the *only* thing tat makes consuming pot sinful is the law against it.
If you want to play the harm card, people have already pointed to the well documented harmful effects of alcohol and tobacco vs. the lack of evidence showing harm from pot.  (Although, I must say that inhaling smoke of any sort can't be good for the lungs in the long term)
I don't deny the sinfulness of smoking pot, just the root reason for the sin.  Therefore refraining from communion is due to the legal status of the drug rather than the moral implications of taking it on it's own merits.
As for the idea of 'strictly for therapeutic purposes' caviat, one must admit that nicotine and alcohol are too drugs.  Just because they are common, legal, and have a long history in the old world doesn't make them any less of a drug.

ETA: Also, I find the abuse of the medical marijuana laws awful and just as sinful as smoking pot while it is outright illegal.  You must lie to get a medical permit and find a doctor to be complicit in the lie.
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#76
(10-30-2012, 10:52 PM)Doce Me Wrote:
(10-30-2012, 10:04 PM)knittycat Wrote: I am curious as to where in the catechism it refers to intoxication as a sin.  I assume it is, and I assume that consuming any substance with the intent of intoxication is sinful, however, I'd like to see infallible instruction on the subject.

(10-30-2012, 10:08 PM)per_passionem_eius Wrote: knittycat, this was posted earlier in the thread.

(10-30-2012, 08:40 PM)Doce Me Wrote: Getting drunk is a mortal sin. At what point is the effect of smoking pot as bad as that of getting drunk? Usually (I hope) when people drink they only want a relatively mild effect.  Is that true for people who smoke pot?

However you compare pot vs. alcohol, The Catechism of the Catholic Church certainly can't be just ignored (even if you want to ignore the SSPX).  If you don' t like the CCC, previous teaching would only be stricter.

"Catechism of the Catholic Church" Wrote:2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others' safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.

2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

I assume when the CCC says using drugs is a grave offense, it means a mortal sin.  It is not talking about their legality, but about the damage they do.

The problem is it doesn't specifically mention marijuana, and some here seem to think it's deficient for that reason.  I think Fr. Scott's article is sufficient proof, but I have no attraction to marijuana, because of the people I've known who have gone mad when they were deprived of it.
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#77
Beware the reefer madness.  Indeed.
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#78
(10-30-2012, 11:01 PM)per_passionem_eius Wrote:
(10-30-2012, 10:52 PM)Doce Me Wrote:
(10-30-2012, 10:04 PM)knittycat Wrote: I am curious as to where in the catechism it refers to intoxication as a sin.  I assume it is, and I assume that consuming any substance with the intent of intoxication is sinful, however, I'd like to see infallible instruction on the subject.

(10-30-2012, 10:08 PM)per_passionem_eius Wrote: knittycat, this was posted earlier in the thread.

(10-30-2012, 08:40 PM)Doce Me Wrote: Getting drunk is a mortal sin. At what point is the effect of smoking pot as bad as that of getting drunk? Usually (I hope) when people drink they only want a relatively mild effect.  Is that true for people who smoke pot?

However you compare pot vs. alcohol, The Catechism of the Catholic Church certainly can't be just ignored (even if you want to ignore the SSPX).  If you don' t like the CCC, previous teaching would only be stricter.

"Catechism of the Catholic Church" Wrote:2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others' safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.

2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

I assume when the CCC says using drugs is a grave offense, it means a mortal sin.  It is not talking about their legality, but about the damage they do.

The problem is it doesn't specifically mention marijuana, and some here seem to think it's deficient for that reason.  I think Fr. Scott's article is sufficient proof, but I have no attraction to marijuana, because of the people I've known who have gone mad when they were deprived of it.

The problem isn't that it doesn't mention marijuana by name.  I think everybody here can agree that taking methanphetamine is sinful (except for the very very rare circumstances in which it is medically advised. and they are RARE) and that certainly isn't mentioned by name in the catechism!
The people I've known who smoked tobacco were deprived of cigarettes went mad as well, yet nobody seems to consider smoking tobacco sinful.
I think the disagreement comes about as to weather or not marijuana can be taken (truly) recreationaly (like once or twice a month, kind of like how I drink beer) and weather or not it is harmful (whereas alcohol and tobacco have been proven harmful frequently, yet nobody seems to consider their recreational use sinful because of their legal status).
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#79
St. Thomas says you can drink alcohol to the point of "great hilarity."  I would assume the same applies to Mary Jane.  Of course, the point of "great hilarity" might be reached much quicker if one were, say, smoking and watching an episode of Family Guy for instance.  Just as an example. So YMMV.

AFAIK.  :shrug:
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#80
(10-30-2012, 11:10 PM)knittycat Wrote: The problem isn't that it doesn't mention marijuana by name.  I think everybody here can agree that taking methanphetamine is sinful (except for the very very rare circumstances in which it is medically advised. and they are RARE) and that certainly isn't mentioned by name in the catechism!

It would solve the problem if it was named, though, because that's what the discussion is about.
(10-30-2012, 11:10 PM)knittycat Wrote: The people I've known who smoked tobacco were deprived of cigarettes went mad as well, yet nobody seems to consider smoking tobacco sinful.

I've never seen anyone start smoking crack because they'd stopped smoking cigarettes, but I have seen that in someone who couldn't get any marijuana because there'd been a big bust. 
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