Pope Benedict’s message to President Obama
#1
Pope Benedict’s message to  [Image: pope_benedict_xvi_writing225.jpg]
President Obama

Some comments
from Brian McCall

It must be noted that such a document carries no magisterial or teaching authority. It constitutes a diplomatic or political communication in the temporal sphere. It should be read and evaluated accordingly. The criteria to apply would be the truth of the facts alleged and the political prudence the document may or may not exhibit.

11-7-2012

Vatican City, 7 November 2012 (VIS) - Benedict XVI, through the apostolic nunciature in Washington, U.S.A., has sent a message to Barack Obama, congratulating him on his re-election as president of the United States of America.

Comment: Such a statement of congratulations is a diplomatic courtesy meant to show respect for the office attained. Yet, when the office holder is a person who propagates grave moral evils, one might conclude in prudence that diplomatic courtesy should be omitted to make a moral point. Some evils are so grave that the office holder forfeits the right to the usual diplomatic courtesy. Should Pius XII have sent congratulatory messages to Hitler upon the anniversary of his initial elector victory in 1943 when the extent of his evil actions was publicly manifested? Should St. Peter have congratulated Nero on his seizing of the Imperial throne? Do the evils advocated by President Obama—on demand, publicly funded abortion and even infanticide, the legalization of sins against nature and destructive of true marriage, persecution of the Church—rise to a sufficient level to require a diplomatic slight? The decision of the Holy See on the gravity of the evils Mr. Obama represents involves a prudential judgment. Yet, the record is one of the most problematic in recent political history.

In his message the Holy Father expresses his best wishes to the president on his new mandate...

Factually this statement seems inaccurate. Mr. Obama barely won half of the votes of those actually voting. With only a little more than half of the eligible voters casting a ballot this year that means that only a little more than a quarter of those eligible to do so voted for the President. That means that in fact a majority of Americans voted against Mr. Obama either by voting for his opponent or abstaining from the whole election. Such a victory hardly seems to be a mandate from the American people. Perhaps the Holy Father should have taken the opportunity to remonstrate Catholics, a majority of whom voted yet again for Mr. Obama whereas Protestants overwhelmingly voted for his opponent.

...and gives assurances of his prayers to God to help him carry out his serious responsibilities, both in his own country and within the international community.

What of prayers for Mr. Obama’s conversion of heart to at least accept and abide by the natural law if not the divine law?

The Pope also speaks of his hope that the ideals of freedom and justice, which guided the founding fathers of the Unites States of America, may continue to shine out as the nation progresses.

Can a nation that continues to fund the legalized murder of millions of innocent children and promotes the desecration of marriage through legalized same sex unions and which mandates that employers provide free contraception to employees be characterized as shining out and progressing in freedom and justice? This statement exhibits the false optimism that pervaded the Second Vatican Council. Rather than condemning the errors and evils spreading like wildfire through the Church and the World, the Council rather decided to look through rose colored glasses and congratulates secular governments and false religions on the good things they did. To pretend a nation is progressing when it is in moral freefall is merely denying reality just as the Second Vatican Council ignored against the wishes of many Council Fathers the blatant evils of Communism and instead celebrated the goodness of modern man.

Holy See Press Office Director Fr. Federico Lombardi S.J. also made a brief comment on the re-election of President Obama. "As we all know", he said, "the U.S. president has an immense responsibility, not only in his own country but also towards the rest of the world, given the role the U.S.A. plays at an international level".

"For this reason we hope that President Obama will respond to his fellow citizens' expectations, serving law and justice for the good and development of all people, and respecting essential human and spiritual values while promoting a culture of life and religious freedom".

Is there any realistic basis to harbor such a hope given Mr. Obama’s past actions and clear publicly stated intentions? His own party voted to expel God. Do such actions really inspire hope or is this mere presumption?

Original link http://sspx.org/news/comments_on_pope_be...7-2012.htm
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#2
GA,
What would you have as an alternative?  Perhaps this:

"Dear Heretic,
You and your liberal cronies are going to Hell.  You are a baby killer and a liar.  You have no reverence for human life whatsoever and will do everything you can to corrupt the morals of those idiot sheep who elected you as their president.  I will pray that someone puts you out of your misery so that the attacks on the Catholic Church and all we hold dear will stop.  Anyone, including that pseudo-Catholic you chose as a VP, would be better than you. Piss off!"

Not really diplomatic is it?  It is also not really helpful to the millions of American Catholics who still have to live under Obama's government.  Perhaps the tone of the original letter is a overly rosy but it is a diplomatic document. 

I'm trying to imagine the administration's reaction if Benedict had sent something like a wrote above.  I think it wouldn't be pretty . . .  The liberal media would have a field day and Catholics the world over would be censured for being overly judgemental along with anything else they could possibly dream up. 
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#3
Fontevrault,

I understand the point you are trying to make, but what you write is a non-sequitur: if you want to argue that the Holy Father should not have condemned in stark and plain language Obama and his cronies, it does not have to be the ridiculous glad-handing of the actual document. There are ways to make a point in a diplomatic manner; the Holy Father chose not to do so.

For what it is worth, I think the response should have been to send two items:

1. A copy of Quas Primas
2. A bull of excommunication of Joseph Biden

Furthermore, I think he should have starkly and apologetically castigated so-called Catholics who voted for Obama, told them to repent, and to get to Confession immediately.
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#4
And the response would likely have been the same.  When you are arguing with narrow minded idiots, there really is no point at all.  Obama isn't going to give a damn and Biden isn't really going to care about excommunication.  His faith is essentially the same as any of the Protestant churches down the street.  Why not just transfer allegiance and call it good?  Excommunication today means nothing when compared to the bludgeoning device it could be in the Middle Ages.  Biden will never be barefoot in the snow at Canossa.  Just ain't gonna happen.
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#5
(11-10-2012, 01:54 PM)Fontevrault Wrote: And the response would likely have been the same.  When you are arguing with narrow minded idiots, there really is no point at all.  Obama isn't going to give a damn and Biden isn't really going to care about excommunication.  His faith is essentially the same as any of the Protestant churches down the street.  Why not just transfer allegiance and call it good?  Excommunication today means nothing when compared to the bludgeoning device it could be in the Middle Ages.  Biden will never be barefoot in the snow at Canossa.  Just ain't gonna happen.

Excellent historical reference! I would have expected nothing less.  :salute:
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#6
(11-10-2012, 08:00 AM)Fontevrault Wrote: GA,
What would you have as an alternative?  Perhaps this:

"Dear Heretic,
You and your liberal cronies are going to Hell.  You are a baby killer and a liar.  You have no reverence for human life whatsoever and will do everything you can to corrupt the morals of those idiot sheep who elected you as their president.  I will pray that someone puts you out of your misery so that the attacks on the Catholic Church and all we hold dear will stop.  Anyone, including that pseudo-Catholic you chose as a VP, would be better than you. Piss off!"

I can see lots of past Popes doing that. As well as excommunicating Biden and as St Pius V did for Elizabeth I writing a Bull announcing all Catholics need not follow his rule.
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#7
Your true beliefs are what you are willing to fight for.  The truth is, the Pope is probably not that far off from Obama in his beliefs.  He probably believes Obama is more right than wrong and correcting him on abortion is a tedious "necessity" of being Pope that he'd rather not bother with.  You get those duties out of the way with vague and weak corrections that are never directed at anyone specific. 

When you're Pope you save that kind of specific tearing into a person when it's Bishop Williamson.  The lesson: only take on people that are not anywhere near your power level.   
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#8
(11-10-2012, 04:55 PM)Gerard Wrote: Your true beliefs are what you are willing to fight for.  The truth is, the Pope is probably not that far off from Obama in his beliefs.  He probably believes Obama is more right than wrong and correcting him on abortion is a tedious "necessity" of being Pope that he'd rather not bother with.  You get those duties out of the way with vague and weak corrections that are never directed at anyone specific. 

When you're Pope you save that kind of specific tearing into a person when it's Bishop Williamson.  The lesson: only take on people that are not anywhere near your power level.   

Any proof that the Benedict feels this way?  Or do you just want another reason to criticize him?
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#9
(11-10-2012, 01:54 PM)Fontevrault Wrote: And the response would likely have been the same.  When you are arguing with narrow minded idiots, there really is no point at all.  Obama isn't going to give a damn and Biden isn't really going to care about excommunication.  His faith is essentially the same as any of the Protestant churches down the street.  Why not just transfer allegiance and call it good?  Excommunication today means nothing when compared to the bludgeoning device it could be in the Middle Ages.  Biden will never be barefoot in the snow at Canossa.  Just ain't gonna happen.

Excommunications aren't just about making sure heretics "get what's coming to them."

It's a very public and declarative way for Church leaders to distance dissenters from the Faith away from the Church.  It's a way of saying "what you believe is not Catholic, and to show this we're taking away your member card."

Excommunications are helpful to the faithful that would be scandalized by the public unCatholic actions of self proclaimed Catholics.  And this is proven when you consider that Obama won the Catholic vote.

Whether or not the recipient of an excommunication actually cares if they're excommunicated is ultimately irrelevant in terms of whether or not they should be excommunicated. 
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#10
(11-10-2012, 06:12 PM)Fontevrault Wrote: Any proof that the Benedict feels this way?  Or do you just want another reason to criticize him?

I look at what Pope Benedict actually fights and confronts people with directly.  I look at what he doesn't fight for and doesn't confront directly. 

I don't WANT any reason to criticize him.  But I also don't WANT to just pretend what I WANT or FEEL is what determines the truth. 
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