On Vocations, Priestly and Religious
#1
http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/car...nd-sisters

In sum, the study found 3% of never-married men and 2% of never-married women "have seriously considered" religious life or the priesthood. This translates, so I am told, into 350,000 men and 250,000 women, and best of all, they are all young! The potential here is both exciting, encouraging, and wonderful. Our Holy Father has spoken of a new springtime in the Church, especially in the United States. Vocations are up, seminaries are filling (my seminary, the Pontifical College Josephinum, can hardly hold any more students), and the pro-life movement is stronger than ever. What we need is not a lament over where vocations have gone, but rather to properly shepherd these men and women discerning God's call. This means priests must preach often on vocations and faithfully hand down the traditions from the Magisterium. If, by the grace of God I persevere to ordination, I intend to a) stamp out liturgical abuse (the Novus Ordo can be a beautiful, exalted Mass, a great worship of Our Lord, when it is sung and the rubrics are scrupulously followed), take preaching very seriously, and constantly challenge parishioners to subject themselves wholly to God's will. For it is only by these means that vocations to religious life and the priesthood will flourish, in addition to the piety of the faithful.

I am excited, even in the midst of ever-growing, ever-encroaching secularism that threatens the freedom of the Church (on that note I have much to say, but not here). What of you? Is this news cause for rejoicing?
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#2
Now all we need is a lot more traditional orders and diocese who don't ostracize men like me for wanting to only do the TLM.

The biggest problem I think with young people trying to join orders, is their student loan debt and also their attachment to the world. If those two things can be rooted out, then you'll see a large influx of vocations. But until things start to change from the top down, meaning Rome turns back more towards traditional liturgy and sacramental rites, then you will continue to see the traditional orders and traditional minded diocesan priests marginalized.

Pope Benedict is right when he says in the future he forsees a much smaller church. Yes, because novelty has no place in the church, and all those who love novelty will end up leaving the church when the hierarchy finally starts to recant on it's errors and return to the traditional practice of the faith as it was before Vatican II. That is the greatest remedy for the sickness that engulfs the faithful and the priests right now.
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#3
(11-10-2012, 07:05 PM)Atomagenesis Wrote: But until things start to change from the top down, meaning Rome turns back more towards traditional liturgy and sacramental rites, then you will continue to see the traditional orders and traditional minded diocesan priests marginalized.

On the contrary! the change is happening right now, from the bottom up. At the Josephinum (my seminary), we joke that there's only three kinds of seminarians: rad-trad, trad, and conservative. We've grown up in the poisonous "spirit of Vatican II" (whenever I hear that phrase, it's almost certain to entail something entirely contrary to the Council), we've grown up and weathered the priest sex abuse scandal - and we continue to love Holy Mother Church. We love the Extraordinary Form (offered biweekly on Saturdays), Latin, Gregorian Chant; we are zealous for the salvation of souls, for Christ, and His Vicar. And all this without a formal, 'top-down' change from Rome!
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#4
(11-10-2012, 07:21 PM)Philosoraptor Wrote:
(11-10-2012, 07:05 PM)Atomagenesis Wrote: But until things start to change from the top down, meaning Rome turns back more towards traditional liturgy and sacramental rites, then you will continue to see the traditional orders and traditional minded diocesan priests marginalized.

On the contrary! the change is happening right now, from the bottom up. At the Josephinum (my seminary), we joke that there's only three kinds of seminarians: rad-trad, trad, and conservative. We've grown up in the poisonous "spirit of Vatican II" (whenever I hear that phrase, it's almost certain to entail something entirely contrary to the Council), we've grown up and weathered the priest sex abuse scandal - and we continue to love Holy Mother Church. We love the Extraordinary Form (offered biweekly on Saturdays), Latin, Gregorian Chant; we are zealous for the salvation of souls, for Christ, and His Vicar. And all this without a formal, 'top-down' change from Rome!

Traditionally minded priests within the regular structure of the Church will continually be suffocated and exiled by those at the top.  It must be from the top down.  The bottom can only get so far up before they run into someone who will kick them as far as they can
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
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#5
(11-10-2012, 07:21 PM)Philosoraptor Wrote:
(11-10-2012, 07:05 PM)Atomagenesis Wrote: But until things start to change from the top down, meaning Rome turns back more towards traditional liturgy and sacramental rites, then you will continue to see the traditional orders and traditional minded diocesan priests marginalized.

On the contrary! the change is happening right now, from the bottom up. At the Josephinum (my seminary), we joke that there's only three kinds of seminarians: rad-trad, trad, and conservative. We've grown up in the poisonous "spirit of Vatican II" (whenever I hear that phrase, it's almost certain to entail something entirely contrary to the Council), we've grown up and weathered the priest sex abuse scandal - and we continue to love Holy Mother Church. We love the Extraordinary Form (offered biweekly on Saturdays), Latin, Gregorian Chant; we are zealous for the salvation of souls, for Christ, and His Vicar. And all this without a formal, 'top-down' change from Rome!

While I'm excited to read that your seminary is open to Tradition, and yourself and fellow seminarians are like-minded, what happens to the seminarian or candidate who says, "I only wish to offer the TLM"? Or what if the priest celebrates the NO in Latin and AO-- or just speaks unequivocally? And really, I think we all know the answer. Fr. Michael Rodriguez is a good example of what happens, along with Fr. Guarnizo and others.

Stay strong.
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#6
(11-10-2012, 07:28 PM)SMKMI Wrote:
(11-10-2012, 07:21 PM)Philosoraptor Wrote:
(11-10-2012, 07:05 PM)Atomagenesis Wrote: But until things start to change from the top down, meaning Rome turns back more towards traditional liturgy and sacramental rites, then you will continue to see the traditional orders and traditional minded diocesan priests marginalized.

On the contrary! the change is happening right now, from the bottom up. At the Josephinum (my seminary), we joke that there's only three kinds of seminarians: rad-trad, trad, and conservative. We've grown up in the poisonous "spirit of Vatican II" (whenever I hear that phrase, it's almost certain to entail something entirely contrary to the Council), we've grown up and weathered the priest sex abuse scandal - and we continue to love Holy Mother Church. We love the Extraordinary Form (offered biweekly on Saturdays), Latin, Gregorian Chant; we are zealous for the salvation of souls, for Christ, and His Vicar. And all this without a formal, 'top-down' change from Rome!

While I'm excited to read that your seminary is open to Tradition, and yourself and fellow seminarians are like-minded, what happens to the seminarian or candidate who says, "I only wish to offer the TLM"? Or what if the priest celebrates the NO in Latin and AO-- or just speaks unequivocally? And really, I think we all know the answer. Fr. Michael Rodriguez is a good example of what happens, along with Fr. Guarnizo and others.

Stay strong.

A good question, though it's a highly unlikely situation because today's seminarians are taught that the TLM is simply the extraordinary form of the mass, and is no different than the NO.

Today's seminarians are bred for a high, middle and low Church schema like the Anglicans.  Christians of varying belief and practice all unified under the pope, who gives it all the thumbs up as long as you keep the spirit of the council.
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
Reply
#7
(11-10-2012, 07:24 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: Traditionally minded priests within the regular structure of the Church will continually be suffocated and exiled by those at the top.  It must be from the top down.  The bottom can only get so far up before they run into someone who will kick them as far as they can

What do you mean by "traditionally minded"? If you mean a priest who thinks that the Novus Ordo is blasphemy, then yes, such a priest will and should be suffocated. I love the Extraordinary Form. I look forward to the day when, God willing, I shall be able to offer it. But the Novus Ordo is a beautiful Mass in its own right, when it is offered properly and according to the rubrics. I am of the opinion that the Magisterium has the authority to alter the liturgy, and holding this belief does not make me any less 'traditionally minded'.
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#8
(11-10-2012, 07:37 PM)Philosoraptor Wrote:
(11-10-2012, 07:24 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: Traditionally minded priests within the regular structure of the Church will continually be suffocated and exiled by those at the top.  It must be from the top down.  The bottom can only get so far up before they run into someone who will kick them as far as they can

What do you mean by "traditionally minded"? If you mean a priest who thinks that the Novus Ordo is blasphemy, then yes, such a priest will and should be suffocated. I love the Extraordinary Form. I look forward to the day when, God willing, I shall be able to offer it. But the Novus Ordo is a beautiful Mass in its own right, when it is offered properly and according to the rubrics. I am of the opinion that the Magisterium has the authority to alter the liturgy, and holding this belief does not make me any less 'traditionally minded'.

No, that would be a traditional priest.  A traditionally minded priest (per my own subjective definition) would be one who recognizes that there are vast integral differences between the NO and TLM (NO= Novus Ordo TLM= Traditional Latin Mass) and may or may not yet realize that it's because the NO is a modernist driven liturgy that was already condemned when Cranmer got his comeuppance. 

I won't get involved in this discussion because I know that you are new to FE and this thread doesn't need to become what it will if we continue.  There are more suitable threads where we can talk about why the NO, even if valid, isn't Catholic any more than a bowl of tapwater.
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
Reply
#9
(11-10-2012, 07:42 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: There are more suitable threads where we can talk about why the NO, even if valid, isn't Catholic any more than a bowl of tapwater.

This is apparently the minority, "fringe" view now.
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#10
(11-10-2012, 07:53 PM)Phillipus Iacobus Wrote:
(11-10-2012, 07:42 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote: There are more suitable threads where we can talk about why the NO, even if valid, isn't Catholic any more than a bowl of tapwater.

This is apparently the minority, "fringe" view now.

Catholics today do well to remember that our English ancestor Catholics thought it a view worth dying for. 
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
Reply




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