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Children at the NO: Is it confusing for them?
#31
My point is the opposite.
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#32
I would love for you in some substantial way to prove that Catholics are falling away from the Faith, not because of the lack of smells and bells, irreverence, and such like, but because of theological deficiency in the text of the Mass. Please cite for me a circumstance of the few places where the New Mass is celebrated with all these options pressed into service, and the people are irreverent, heterodox, and falling away. Please enlighten me. Rather, you'll see in every case those parishes and seminaries thrive.

And if you cannot provide an instance, even if because of lack of data, then admit your critique is missing a critical component. I bet dollars to donuts that wherever there is boring music, irreverence, and other such like problems, including at a TLM, people will leave. If they have a hard time finding another option, they'll leave for good. The doctrine follows easily on its heals. The world comes in, and a Catholic not buoyed by a reverent Mass, will be more open and vulnerable to external bad ideas.

So please show me this, and I will then concede that the problem is in the texts itself.
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#33
(11-15-2012, 07:09 PM)Scriptorium Wrote: I would love for you in some substantial way to prove that Catholics are falling away from the Faith, not because of the lack of smells and bells, irreverence, and such like, but because of theological deficiency in the text of the Mass. Please cite for me a circumstance of the few places where the New Mass is celebrated with all these options pressed into service, and the people are irreverent, heterodox, and falling away. Please enlighten me. Rather, you'll see in every case those parishes and seminaries thrive.

And if you cannot provide an instance, even if because of lack of data, then admit your critique is missing a critical component. I bet dollars to donuts that wherever there is boring music, irreverence, and other such like problems, including at a TLM, people will leave. If they have a hard time finding another option, they'll leave for good. The doctrine follows easily on its heals. The world comes in, and a Catholic not buoyed by a reverent Mass, will be more open and vulnerable to external bad ideas.

So please show me this, and I will then concede that the problem is in the texts itself.

The bolded part? That's not gonna happen at any TLM I've ever seen.

Sometimes people fall away from the faith at the NO because it gets sloppy there. The teaching is fuzzy or the liturgy is blah. People leave the TLM, too, but for other reasons. The TLM requires more; its harder.
"Not only are we all in the same boat, but we are all seasick.” --G.K. Chesterton
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