Jewish Method for Improving Marriages
#41
(12-28-2012, 09:41 PM)Phillipus Iacobus Wrote: My freshman religion teacher told me that since God never breaks His promises, the Old Covenant is still valid.

Although he did not say it, what logically follow is that one could follow the Old Law and the Old Covenant, without any faith in Christ or membership in the Church, and attain salvation.

Pure heresy.

Right, so Christianity isn't worth a bag-o-beans. And I can go out and sin in anyway possible but since God never "breaks a promise" and I have my get into heaven ticket already, then I'm okay.
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#42
(12-28-2012, 09:44 PM)Jacafamala Wrote:
(12-28-2012, 09:41 PM)Phillipus Iacobus Wrote: My freshman religion teacher told me that since God never breaks His promises, the Old Covenant is still valid.

Although he did not say it, what logically follow is that one could follow the Old Law and the Old Covenant, without any faith in Christ or membership in the Church, and attain salvation.

Pure heresy.

Right, so actually trying to follow Christianity isn't worth a bag-o-beans. And I can go out and sin in anyway possible but since God never "breaks a promise" and I have my get into heaven ticket already, then I'm okay.
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#43
(12-28-2012, 09:44 PM)Jacafamala Wrote:
(12-28-2012, 09:44 PM)Jacafamala Wrote:
(12-28-2012, 09:41 PM)Phillipus Iacobus Wrote: My freshman religion teacher told me that since God never breaks His promises, the Old Covenant is still valid.

Although he did not say it, what logically follow is that one could follow the Old Law and the Old Covenant, without any faith in Christ or membership in the Church, and attain salvation.

Pure heresy.

Right, so actually trying to follow Christianity isn't worth a bag-o-beans. And I can go out and sin in anyway possible but since God never "breaks a promise" and I have my get into heaven ticket already (i.e. believing in the name of Jesus) , then I'm okay.
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#44
WhAT HAPPENED TO THE EDIT button, anyway? I cannot function without it.
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#45
(12-28-2012, 09:44 PM)Jacafamala Wrote:
(12-28-2012, 09:41 PM)Phillipus Iacobus Wrote: My freshman religion teacher told me that since God never breaks His promises, the Old Covenant is still valid.

Although he did not say it, what logically follow is that one could follow the Old Law and the Old Covenant, without any faith in Christ or membership in the Church, and attain salvation.

Pure heresy.

Right, so Christianity isn't worth a bag-o-beans. And I can go out and sin in anyway possible but since God never "breaks a promise" and I have my get into heaven ticket already, then I'm okay.

Yep.
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#46
(12-28-2012, 09:46 PM)Jacafamala Wrote: WhAT HAPPENED TO THE EDIT button, anyway? I cannot function without it.

It's gone for me too.

So, our posts, just like my teacher said, are irrevocable.
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#47
Jesus did not come to abolish the law, but fulfill it. (cf. Matt. 5:17) FACT

The Old covenant was never meant to be continued in its model as shown, but always meant to be a type of its future fulfillment. (cf. Jeremiah 31:31; Ezechiel 37:16-28; Hebrews 8, 9) FACT.

Referencing back to Ezechiel 37 16-28, now move forward to Malachi 1:11-14, and then on to Romans 11.

To reference no Temple or sacrifice is... or even more to insinuate that means anything, well, I'll just say it's stupid. It's playing into the hands of the future when they do have the temple rebuilt and have sacrifice.

This supersessionist idea of abolishment of the covenant is not Catholic. As Saint Augustine said, the new is hidden in the old and the old is revealed in the new.

There is no Jew or Greek in Christ, and the plan of God for Israel was never Israel as we see it in history to remain as such--in its fulfillment--nor is the Israel of today properly anything other than the Jews doing what they did in Christ's day: getting it wrong, despite many with good intent and some with evil intent. What a proxy of humanity.

Quit buying into the supersessionist Coyote (Trickster) God concept. It's not Catholic.

Any Jew, at any time, can take possession of what was first theirs: salvation.

Any Gentile, at any time, can reject Israel which is the Church. Many do.

Be careful with your Saint quotes, and quotes from Popes, for many of you who hearken to them have not a clue of the context or anything else. I have in my bathroom an article from "Inside the Vatican" magazine which deals with the Popes and the Jews.

I would guess if I pulled a someone1776 and started showing Pope quotes, many here would shout heresy and attribute them to Blessed Pope John Paul II or Benedict XVI. Try on Pius IX, X, and XII for size. In fact, when I get a chance, I'll just transcribe the article. Some of you will be spun into disarray.

If you don't have a solid grasp of the issue, DO NOT SPOUT YOUR BS.

And based on the postings I'm seeing, hardly any of you have a grasp of what the deal is.

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#48
(12-28-2012, 09:49 PM)Phillipus Iacobus Wrote:
(12-28-2012, 09:46 PM)Jacafamala Wrote: WhAT HAPPENED TO THE EDIT button, anyway? I cannot function without it.

It's gone for me too.

So, our posts, just like my teacher said, are irrevocable.

LOL Yes! Well you know we can not escape ourselves. We are what we are and that is how it is going to be here.
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#49
(12-28-2012, 10:17 PM)SMKMI Wrote: Jesus did not come to abolish the law, but fulfill it. (cf. Matt. 5:17) FACT

The Old covenant was never meant to be continued in its model as shown, but always meant to be a type of its future fulfillment. (cf. Jeremiah 31:31; Ezechiel 37:16-28; Hebrews 8, 9) FACT.

Referencing back to Ezechiel 37 16-28, now move forward to Malachi 1:11-14, and then on to Romans 11.

To reference no Temple or sacrifice is... or even more to insinuate that means anything, well, I'll just say it's stupid. It's playing into the hands of the future when they do have the temple rebuilt and have sacrifice.

This supersessionist idea of abolishment of the covenant is not Catholic. As Saint Augustine said, the new is hidden in the old and the old is revealed in the new.

There is no Jew or Greek in Christ, and the plan of God for Israel was never Israel as we see it in history to remain as such--in its fulfillment--nor is the Israel of today properly anything other than the Jews doing what they did in Christ's day: getting it wrong, despite many with good intent and some with evil intent. What a proxy of humanity.

Quit buying into the supersessionist Coyote (Trickster) God concept. It's not Catholic.

Any Jew, at any time, can take possession of what was first theirs: salvation.

Yes, by ceasing to be a religious Jew, and by entering the Church, becoming a Christian.
(12-28-2012, 10:17 PM)SMKMI Wrote: Any Gentile, at any time, can reject Israel which is the Church. Many do.

Yes, by leaving the Church.
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#50
Robert Sungenis Wrote:When we say that the Old Covenant is "revoked" we are referring to its legal status. If, for example, your driver's license was revoked in California it means that you can no longer drive on California's roads. It doesn't mean that you no longer know how to drive, but just that you can't drive legally in California.



Analogously, the Old Covenant was legally revoked but it doesn't mean that the Old Covenant loses all its influence. We draw many good things from the Old Covenant, even though it has no legal force today. In the same way, we draw many good things from the Magna Carta even though it has no legal force over us, since we are under the US Constitution.



When we say the Old Covenant is "fulfilled" in the New Covenant we are saying that all the things the Old Covenant wanted to accomplish have now been accomplished, or will be accomplished, by the New Covenant, and for the simple reason that the Old Covenant was not able to fulfill them in itself.



But in order for the New Covenant to fulfill the Old Covenant, the Old Covenant had to be revoked. If the Old Covenant was not revoked, then the New Covenant would not have been able to fulfill the Old Covenant. Analogously, if you want to get a driver's license in Texas after having moved their from California, then you must get your driver's license in California nullified or revoked so that you can get a new one in Texas, and in doing so you "fulfill" your desire to drive legally in Texas.



In other words, "fulfillment" and "revocation" of the Old Covenant must work together. Thus, the New Testament is clear that the Old Covenant has been legally revoked (cf. 2Corinthians 3:3-14; Hebrews 7:18; 8:1-13; 10:9; Colossians 2:14-15; Ephesians 2:15), but at the same time the Old Covenant is "fulfilled" by the New Covenant (cf., Hebrews 10:16-18; John 19:30; Romans 9:25-26).



One more thing. In revoking the Old Covenant, God didn't "turn his back on the Jews." Precisely the opposite. The Old Covenant, the Mosaic Covenant, could never save the Jew, thus it needed to be revoked. God replaced the Old Covenant with the only covenant that can save man -- the New Covenant. This covenant was already started in the time of Abraham, and it was then called the Abrahamic covenant (cf. Genesis 12-22; Galatians 3:6-8; Romans 4:1-26). It was meant for the whole world, Jews and Gentiles, as the only means of salvation. The Old Covenant was only a tutor to bring us to the New Covenant (Galatians 4), but it had no power to save. That is why it needed to be "fulfilled" by the New Covenant.
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