Pope St Pius X explains what loving the Pope really entails.
#11
(11-19-2012, 12:58 PM)Meg Wrote: Why then doesn't Pope St. Pius X give a disclaimer about popes whom the Catholic faithful deem to be doing things wrong? Where does Pope St. Pius X say that if the Catholic faithful (or priests and bishops) believe that a Pope is wrong or bad, then it's acceptable to disrepect and/or disobey him? This thread is about what Pope St. Pius X wrote on what having love for the Pope really means.

Actually in the encyclical "Pascendi" he does this when he states that he cannot be silent lest he fail in his sacred duty to defend the deposit of faith.  "Wherefore We may no longer be silent, lest We should seem to fail in Our most sacred duty, and lest the kindness that, in the hope of wiser counsels, We have hitherto shown them, should be attributed to forgetfulness of Our office."

You can love a Pope and love the papacy and still be the biggest thorn in the Pope's side when he is derelict in his duty or going off the rails in his actions.  ( St. Paul is of course, the scriptural example of this. )
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#12
(11-19-2012, 01:46 PM)JayneK Wrote:
(11-19-2012, 01:06 PM)Phillipus Iacobus Wrote: I agree 100% with St. Pius X.

I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't agree with you.

One wonders whether Pope St. Pius X would agree with the current and past pontiffs since the Second Vatican Council.
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#13
(11-19-2012, 02:14 PM)Gerard Wrote:
(11-19-2012, 12:58 PM)Meg Wrote: Why then doesn't Pope St. Pius X give a disclaimer about popes whom the Catholic faithful deem to be doing things wrong? Where does Pope St. Pius X say that if the Catholic faithful (or priests and bishops) believe that a Pope is wrong or bad, then it's acceptable to disrepect and/or disobey him? This thread is about what Pope St. Pius X wrote on what having love for the Pope really means.

Actually in the encyclical "Pascendi" he does this when he states that he cannot be silent lest he fail in his sacred duty to defend the deposit of faith.  "Wherefore We may no longer be silent, lest We should seem to fail in Our most sacred duty, and lest the kindness that, in the hope of wiser counsels, We have hitherto shown them, should be attributed to forgetfulness of Our office."

You can love a Pope and love the papacy and still be the biggest thorn in the Pope's side when he is derelict in his duty or going off the rails in his actions.  ( St. Paul is of course, the scriptural example of this. )

Where does St. Pius X state that Catholics can or should be disrespectful and/or disobedient when they ascertain that a Pope is bad or wrong?
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#14
I think this might be relevant.

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#15
With all due respect, it seems a bit hyperbolic. St. Pius X basically forbids any disagreement with the pope on any subject.
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#16
Let's not forget that St. Pius X never dreamed that the papacy itself would fall to Modernism. St. Pius X never could have imagined that the heresy of Modernism he fought so hard to defeat during his pontificate, would ever be adopted by future Popes.

That was the weakness of the post Vatican I Church. They were not intellectually prepared for the emergence of bad Popes. With Papal Infallibility and the Papal office reaching its highest levels of respect and deference after Vatican I, no one except maybe Cardinal Newman saw the danger of this backfiring when bad Popes emerged. The Church was then not prepared to defend the faith in the confusion of a papal idolatry that emerged because Papal Infallibility has never been adequately explained since Vatican I.   
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#17
(11-19-2012, 08:13 PM)SaintRafael Wrote: Let's not forget that St. Pius X never dreamed that the papacy itself would fall to Modernism. St. Pius X never could have imagined that the heresy of Modernism he fought so hard to defeat during his pontificate, would ever be adopted by future Popes.

First Vatican Council, Dz. 1836 Wrote:The See of St. Peter always remains unimpaired by any error, according to the divine promise of our Lord
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#18
(11-19-2012, 08:13 PM)SaintRafael Wrote: With Papal Infallibility and the Papal office reaching its highest levels of respect and deference after Vatican I, no one except maybe Cardinal Newman saw the danger of this backfiring when bad Popes emerged.

Don't forget Fr. Adrian Fortescue:
Quote:Centralization grows and goes madder every century. Even at Trent they hardly foresaw this kind of thing. Does it really mean that one cannot be a member of the Church of Christ without being, as we are, absolutely at the mercy of an Italian Lunatic?
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#19
Yes, that quote from Fr. Fortescue is quite rude.  :D
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#20
(11-19-2012, 08:47 PM)Phillipus Iacobus Wrote:
First Vatican Council, Dz. 1836 Wrote:The See of St. Peter always remains unimpaired by any error, according to the divine promise of our Lord

There is the divine promise of Our Lord and then there is the propaganda of men that try to glom onto it and extend it to cover their agendas and desires.  The trial of  the corpse of  Pope Formosus and ruling by Pope Stephen on him and the subsequent reversals should be a sobering lesson to anyone who is taken in by romanticizing the papacy into something it is not. 
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