Pope St Pius X explains what loving the Pope really entails.
#61
(11-21-2012, 05:11 AM)Poche Wrote: Has the Society of St Pius X read this?

Well, I think it would help clarify the current impasse between the SSPX and the Vatican.

For as long as we maintain this decadent understanding of the teaching authority of the Church, according to which assent to a novel teaching can be demanded without necessarily demonstrating how the novel teaching coheres with perennial teaching on the matter in question, this crisis will not be resolved. But I think this attitude is not something born of the Second Vatican Council but rather, something that has haunted the Church for a very long time. Indeed, particularly, after the declaration on Papal Infallibility this perverted notion of belief (which includes faith and religious assent) seemed to infect all streams of theology, liberal and conservative.
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#62
(11-21-2012, 08:40 AM)Scotus Wrote:
(11-21-2012, 05:11 AM)Poche Wrote: Has the Society of St Pius X read this?

Well, I think it would help clarify the current impasse between the SSPX and the Vatican.

For as long as we maintain this decadent understanding of the teaching authority of the Church, according to which assent to a novel teaching can be demanded without necessarily demonstrating how the novel teaching coheres with perennial teaching on the matter in question, this crisis will not be resolved. But I think this attitude is not something born of the Second Vatican Council but rather, something that has haunted the Church for a very long time. Indeed, particularly, after the declaration on Papal Infallibility this perverted notion of belief (which includes faith and religious assent) seemed to infect all streams of theology, liberal and conservative.

What a load of codswallop.
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#63
(11-21-2012, 09:51 AM)John Lane Wrote:
(11-21-2012, 08:40 AM)Scotus Wrote:
(11-21-2012, 05:11 AM)Poche Wrote: Has the Society of St Pius X read this?

Well, I think it would help clarify the current impasse between the SSPX and the Vatican.

For as long as we maintain this decadent understanding of the teaching authority of the Church, according to which assent to a novel teaching can be demanded without necessarily demonstrating how the novel teaching coheres with perennial teaching on the matter in question, this crisis will not be resolved. But I think this attitude is not something born of the Second Vatican Council but rather, something that has haunted the Church for a very long time. Indeed, particularly, after the declaration on Papal Infallibility this perverted notion of belief (which includes faith and religious assent) seemed to infect all streams of theology, liberal and conservative.

What a load of codswallop.

Explain.
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#64
It's just vague, home-baked theology, you might as well be a Protestant if that is how the Church is going to "teach" you (i.e. think of what makes sense to you, accuse the theologians of getting her doctrine wrong, and assert that you believe what the Church really teaches - which is really only a product of your imagination).  It's so perverted I don't know where you'll end up.

This situation is a deep and abiding mystery, which will one day be explored and hopefully solved by the theologians under the guidance of the magisterium.  Until then (and after, if we're alive) we need to avoid inventing our own theology.
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#65
(11-21-2012, 06:03 PM)John Lane Wrote: It's just vague, home-baked theology, you might as well be a Protestant if that is how the Church is going to "teach" you (i.e. think of what makes sense to you, accuse the theologians of getting her doctrine wrong, and assert that you believe what the Church really teaches - which is really only a product of your imagination).  It's so perverted I don't know where you'll end up.

This situation is a deep and abiding mystery, which will one day be explored and hopefully solved by the theologians under the guidance of the magisterium.  Until then (and after, if we're alive) we need to avoid inventing our own theology.

In other words Catholics are incapable of basic thinking.

This is too far for Catholics to go:

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#66
(11-19-2012, 09:45 AM)Old Salt Wrote:    


"Love the Pope!" - no ifs, and no buts:
For Bishops, priests, and faithful, Saint Pius X explains what loving the Pope really entails


"The struggle against Modernism had taken a great toll on Pope Saint Pius X as he spoke 100 years ago, in November 1912, to the members of the Apostolic Union of Clergy, a confraternity of secular priests in union with the Holy See. He knew that despite every effort, he was being disobeyed and disregarded in so many places, by priests and even by bishops. He knew "learned" scholars despised him, and wished their authority to take the place of the Apostolic voice.


In a cry coming deep from his holy heart, the Pope summoned all the Church to understand what love for the Pope, any Pope, the one who holds the Keys, truly entails: a hard message that, exactly one century later, must be heard and obeyed by the clergy and by the lay faithful.


________________________________



Distracted with so many occupations, it is easy to forget the things that lead to perfection in priestly life; it is easy [for the priest] to delude himself and to believe that, by busying himself with the salvation of the souls of others, he consequently works for his own sanctification. Alas, let not this delusion lead you to error, because nemo dat quod nemo habet [no one gives what he does not have]; and, in order to sanctify others, it is necessary not to neglect any of the ways proposed for the sanctification of ourselves.


...


The Pope is the guardian of dogma and of morals; he is the custodian of the principles that make families sound, nations great, souls holy; he is the counsellor of princes and of peoples; he is the head under whom no one feels tyrannized because he represents God Himself; he is the supreme father who unites in himself all that may exist that is loving, tender, divine.


It seems incredible, and is even painful, that there be priests to whom this recommendation must be made, but we are regrettably in our age in this hard, unhappy, situation of having to tell priests: love the Pope!


And how must the Pope be loved? Non verbo neque lingua, sed opere et veritate. [Not in word, nor in tongue, but in deed, and in truth - 1 Jn iii, 18] When one loves a person, one tries to adhere in everything to his thoughts, to fulfill his will, to perform his wishes. And if Our Lord Jesus Christ said of Himself, "si quis diligit me, sermonem meum servabit," [if any one love me, he will keep my word - Jn xiv, 23] therefore, in order to demonstrate our love for the Pope, it is necessary to obey him.


Therefore, when we love the Pope, there are no discussions regarding what he orders or demands, or up to what point obedience must go, and in what things he is to be obeyed; when we love the Pope, we do not say that he has not spoken clearly enough, almost as if he were forced to repeat to the ear of each one the will clearly expressed so many times not only in person, but with letters and other public documents; we do not place his orders in doubt, adding the facile pretext of those unwilling to obey - that it is not the Pope who commands, but those who surround him; we do not limit the field in which he might and must exercise his authority; we do not set above the authority of the Pope that of other persons, however learned, who dissent from the Pope, who, even though learned, are not holy, because whoever is holy cannot dissent from the Pope.


This is the cry of a heart filled with pain, that with deep sadness I express, not for your sake, dear brothers, but to deplore, with you, the conduct of so many priests, who not only allow themselves to debate and criticize the wishes of the Pope, but are not embarrassed to reach shameless and blatant disobedience, with so much scandal for the good and with so great damage to souls.


Saint Pius X
Allocution Vi ringrazio to priests on the 50th anniversary of the Apostolic Union
November 18, 1912"
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