The Little Number of Those Who Are Saved
#31
(12-10-2012, 01:47 PM)newyorkcatholic Wrote: Gerards posts in this thread are really excellent.

Agreed.  If you can only handle going back and reading one or two, read his.  Spot on. 
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#32
I've read this again and again, and I just don't see how a Catholic can take issue with it. Hyperbole ? Sure it is.
But ridiculing this sermon or publicly dismissing it is very wrong imo.

The words of Christ Himself support the message of this sermon. Or should I say, the sermon reminds us of Christ's message. I don't know if St Leonard's claim of numbers saved are accurate, but I really don't need to determine that.

Catholicism isn't fun nor is it easy. Going through the motions doesn't cut it.

How often is it said the we don't have to live as extremely as Saints do ? Imo, that message is much more dangerous than a sermon such as this.

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#33
Then maybe evolution is not so far-fetched after all, since it appears to fit this model of salvation economics.

Evolution means 99% of the species that ever lived died out and that there were LOADS of loose ends that never went anywhere because their particular mutation did not serve them.  These were in the majority.  It also requires MASSIVE timescales.  Violence, suffering and death appears to be the mechanism for producing an ever more sophisticated group of creatures recycled from the old.  Like having 10,000 Chinamen slaving away in horrible poisoned conditions to produce a nice shiny iPad.

Likewise, the vast majority of mankind appear to have no realistic chance of being saved.

This might well be the case.  How can any of us know how God operates but calling it the "Good News" is a little far fetched.  In terms of the human condition and human nature then number of people who through luck, circumstance, personality or other factors largely out of their control who are saved is very few, it would appear.

If the humans had individually chosen to surf kiddy-porn sites and turned themselves into monsters like Jimmy Saville then it would seem reasonably to damn to Hell any proportion that had made that conscious choice.  In my experience, however, a HUGE chunk of humanity never had the opportunity or intellectual tools to arrive at Catholicism as a choice.  Vast tracks of the developing world are populated by people with a myopic view of the world, superstitions and massive social pressure to stay homogeneous to the rest of society.

God made human nature and knew how humans would be after the fall.  A baby comes out of the birth canal in most of the world with Buckley's chance of finding Catholicism and taking it seriously.  There's no point in arguing with God, but I find it impossible to understand that a loving God can bring billions of people into existence, without asking them first, and explaining the chances of them burning in hell for all eternity when the odds are so slim of saving yourself.

That does not seem like an objectively "good" plan to me.

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#34
I can't figure God out. All I know is He has revealed the means of Salvation.

If I don't make it to Heaven, it certainly won't be for lack of trying to get there. And if I go to Hell, it will be for reasons other than encouraging people to ignore and dismiss the hard cold truth.
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#35
(12-10-2012, 02:57 AM)SMKMI Wrote:
(12-09-2012, 11:19 PM)HailGilbert Wrote: This sermon is one of the main reasons why I have kept away from Mass and Confession all these months, along with my anger and pain at God for allowing me to be mentally ill in the first place. Why even hope to escape Hell after death, nor have any real lasting contentment in Christ in this life, when it will all be for naught for most of us after death?

BTW, where are all the other works of St. Leonard of Port Maurice in English on thw web? Why is this sermon on line and nothing else?

Thank you all for your prayers for me in advance.

Brother, don't despair!

Entrust yourself to the Immaculate, and plead for the mercy of Christ. (Our Lady, after all, is also known as the Mother of Mercy... whose mom is she? Christ's!)

Go to confession, feel the peace of absolution, spend time before the Blessed Sacrament, pray the Rosary ( I was feeling sort of blah today, but after praying the Rosary and just remembering the basics of certain things, I now feel like a million bucks), etc.

Our Lord did not institute the Sacraments to play games with people, but for salvation! Make use of them. Do your best, and God will not leave you hanging.

Also, get a copy of this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0895552167/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used

It's simply amazing and really puts things into perspective.

SMKMI, Allan, Whitey, Shin and any other newbies here,

I've yet to recover my trust in Jesus and am still angry at Him for allowing me to be mentally ill in the first place. Looking into my background will hopefully be able to give you a clearer picture.

First, go to the thread from the Health and Food section called "The Curse Of OCPD":

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/inde...540.0.html

Second, go to the third and subsequent pages of this thread from the Secular News section called "Very important Vortex on Obamacare":

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/inde...886.0.html

I appreciate your prayers and good wishes. Many, many thank-yous in advance.
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#36
Pointless HG.  What is your mental illness compared to suffering in Hell for all eternity?  You have a heavy cross sure, but pity the poor North Korean who is brainwashed from birth and dies in the Gulag eating his own feces and then gets to burn in hell as he never knew who Christ was accepted him or was baptised.

At least you have a shot.  You have an Internet connection and the sacraments.

That North Korean has nothing.

Pointless blaming Jesus, you might as well go and shout at the moon.
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#37
I think way to much thought is going into this, our the True Religion is not difficult to understand.  Keep the commandments, strive to be perfect, and when you fail humble yourself to obtain the mercy of God and renew your resolutions to keep the commandments and to strive after perfection.

Is it possible everyone in the world could be damned, sure.  Noah and his family where the only ones saved from the flood.

Is it possible that you or I will be damned, sure.  If we do not keep the commandments and strive for perfection.

Is it possible to be damned if we keep the commandments and strive for perfection, no.  Because God wills our salvation more than we do and he is all powerful.

You might ask what about those who do not know the commandments?  They will be judged by their conscience, you will be judged based on the light which God has given you.

Strive manfully and enjoy peace and don't forget to wear your brown scapular.
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#38
(12-11-2012, 09:19 PM)nmoerbeek Wrote: I think way to much thought is going into this, our the True Religion is not difficult to understand.  Keep the commandments, strive to be perfect, and when you fail humble yourself to obtain the mercy of God and renew your resolutions to keep the commandments and to strive after perfection.

Yes.

True Religion is not hard to understand, but it is hard to do.
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#39
Start enjoying hard things, as the world regards it. It really is freeing when you break through the worldly concerns. Its like that relief you experience when you come up from the water after almost coming to the end of your breath. The biggest bait and switch the Devil has delivered in our times is that the cacophony of pleasures available to us is "easy". So according to the world, our religion is hard. But the primrose path of "more, now!" is the easy way. Is it easy or hard for a dog to go back to its own vomit? God help us! Jesus and His yoke are sweet and easy! Don't clog the arteries of holiness with the crap the Devil's shoveling these days!
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#40
(12-11-2012, 08:18 PM)ggreg Wrote: Pointless HG.  What is your mental illness compared to suffering in Hell for all eternity?  You have a heavy cross sure, but pity the poor North Korean who is brainwashed from birth and dies in the Gulag eating his own feces and then gets to burn in hell as he never knew who Christ was accepted him or was baptised.

At least you have a shot.  You have an Internet connection and the sacraments.

That North Korean has nothing.

Pointless blaming Jesus, you might as well go and shout at the moon.

No, it isn't pointless. You have no idea what I go through. Leave me alone then. Thank you.
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