The Little Number of Those Who Are Saved
#41
...and yet, and yet...what parent who has lost a child would not gladly assume tenfold your illnesses for just one more minute with their child?

The first thing the devil takes from us is perspective, the next is hope, and the last, faith. 

The point to this little ditty, HG, is this: it ain't all about you.  God did not do this to you, so much as he permitted it to happen.  Why?  Ask Job.  Good reading that.  In the meantime remember that no matter your circumstances, somewhere, somehow the graces are being made available to you that you require.  Look for them as best you can.

In the meantime, I will head off to Noon Mass which I will receive for your intentions.  Check for those graces sometime around 12:30ish, EST....
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#42
(12-07-2012, 12:13 PM)Allan Wrote: I must admit this troubles me.  Like others, I've seen and read this before.  The whole 144,000 thing is particularly worrisome for two reasons:

First, because the text itself implies that 144,000 go to heaven, the other 99.999999999999% of us to hell. 

Second, because of the way modern priests always - and I do mean always - casually dismiss it with a wave of the arm and something trite like "Oh never mind the number, that was just a really big number back then.  Today, it would be billions and billions".  [NB: this was the actual homily I heard last time]

I also agree that there has been a grave loss of understanding of the concept of imperfect contrition.  I have sometimes, despite prayer, not felt sorry in the least for certain sins.  But I 1) knew they were sins, 2) fear hell and 3) genuinely intend to stop committing them.  So, I would confess but make it clear that my contrition for those sins was imperfect.  Priests, generally, don't know what I mean and I have to explain it to them.  Clearly, the subject never came up during seven years of whatever the heck they were doing in seminary (zen? meditation? ecumenism?)

The 144,000 are just the pure of heart of the children of Israel, the firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.

Apocalypse 7:4 http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=73&ch=7&l=4#x
"And I heard the number of them that were signed, an hundred forty-four thousand were signed, of every tribe of the children of Israel."

Apocalypse 14:3-5 http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=73&ch=14&l=3#x
"And they sung as it were a new canticle, before the throne, and before the four living creatures, and the ancients; and no man could say the canticle, but those hundred forty-four thousand, who were purchased from the earth. [4] These are they who were not defiled with women: for they are virgins. These follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were purchased from among men, the firstfruits to God and to the Lamb: [5] And in their mouth there was found no lie; for they are without spot before the throne of God."

But back to Apocalypse 7 after saying the 144,000 come from the 12 tribes of Israel, twelve thousand signed from each tribe verse 9 goes on to speak of a great multitude, which no man could number.

Apocalypse 7:9-10 http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=73&ch=7&l=9#x
"After this I saw a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and tribes, and peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne, and in sight of the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands: [10] And they cried with a loud voice, saying: Salvation to our God, who sitteth upon the throne, and to the Lamb."

The opening post is very sobering.  The last time I was to confession I spoke to the priest wondering whether my act of contrition was genuine if I continue to confess the same thing.  He basically said that we are continually being tempted in this day and age and to confess as soon as it happens so I am not in the state of mortal sin for long.

We need to pray for the theological virtues of faith, hope and charity.

:pray:   
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#43
Closing the loop for HG: Attended Mass, stayed for the communal Rosary, I met (to the best of my knowledge and belief) all of the necessary conditions to receive indulgences - and I grabbed as many of them as I could: Holy Communion, recited the Credo, Pater, Ave, Rosary, Sext, "My Lord and My God" at the elevation, prayed for Holy Father, Prayer Before Crucifix, etc. etc. etc. - all while forming an express and exclusive intention to attribute all and any graces, benefits, or indulgences to you and for your personal intentions, health, cure and whatever else is desired by or necessary for you.  About 90 minutes or so.
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#44
(12-11-2012, 05:51 PM)HailGilbert Wrote: SMKMI, Allan, Whitey, Shin and any other newbies here,

I've yet to recover my trust in Jesus and am still angry at Him for allowing me to be mentally ill in the first place. Looking into my background will hopefully be able to give you a clearer picture.

First, go to the thread from the Health and Food section called "The Curse Of OCPD":

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/inde...540.0.html

Second, go to the third and subsequent pages of this thread from the Secular News section called "Very important Vortex on Obamacare":

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/inde...886.0.html

I appreciate your prayers and good wishes. Many, many thank-yous in advance.

HG, hang in there. None of us can be in your shoes, nor give you advice which will see you through this. We offer prayers, but this is a one-on-one deal. Your dark night. Perhaps if the focus shifted a little you'd see Jesus as suffering with you instead of zapping you from heaven like some mythical Zeus. Some crosses are very hard to bear, well nigh impossible. What is it like to bear the sufferings of all men? This may be difficult, but you have to become a child. At my church we have this darling young girl. She's below five years of age. She was born with massive facial and neck problems and to this day relies on breathing and feeding tubes to survive. Her parents are worn ragged with the situation. And yet this young flower of a girl is a sight of pure joy. It isn't because she is ignorant. It is because she is in a position of pure trust in the hands of those who care for her. And that's the rub. Life has all kinds of twists and turns, as St. Robert Southwell wrote, "Times go by turns and chances change by course, From foul to fair, from better hap to worse." Today is joy, tomorrow sorrow, and the next joy. Such trust may not remove your cross, but it may give you the strength to bear it with a joyful heart. I did say joyful. Your soul is not disordered. Your body has the disorder. These are bound in one, but you are not bound to the lowest potential of this union. You have full freedom in Christ to engage and disengage at will. You may not believe me at this stage, but no suffering in this life is incumbent upon us. We are redeemed children of God, who at any moment can access peace of soul through Christ. The sufferings of this world have no true claim on us. Leave behind your thoughts about normality. They are demonic distractions. You are yourself. Unique and unrepeatable. No other man is you. So what is normal? No two men are alike in anything besides our human nature. In that, you're normal. And leave behind the thoughts on Fatima. Our Lady came to awaken the sinner from his sleep of deprivation, not to give anxiety to the faithful. Our Lord said, "Sufficient for a day is its own evil." Or as a sage once said, the pain we experience in life is like an arrow shot into us. Our obsession with resisting that first arrow, and the connected sorrow and grief, is a second one which we shoot into ourselves. The first arrow is physical pain, the second is the mental obsession and amplification of that, which distresses us further and leads to many an evil. Sufficient for a day is its own evil. Resort to prayer, cultivate trust, and come into the joy the Lord has prepared for you. I wish you well, my friend.
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#45
(12-12-2012, 04:41 PM)Allan Wrote: Closing the loop for HG: Attended Mass, stayed for the communal Rosary, I met (to the best of my knowledge and belief) all of the necessary conditions to receive indulgences - and I grabbed as many of them as I could: Holy Communion, recited the Credo, Pater, Ave, Rosary, Sext, "My Lord and My God" at the elevation, prayed for Holy Father, Prayer Before Crucifix, etc. etc. etc. - all while forming an express and exclusive intention to attribute all and any graces, benefits, or indulgences to you and for your personal intentions, health, cure and whatever else is desired by or necessary for you.  About 90 minutes or so.

A thousand, million, million times thank you. And again, with all my heart, thank you.  :asianbow: :tiphat: :pray:
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#46
(12-12-2012, 07:59 PM)HailGilbert Wrote:
(12-12-2012, 04:41 PM)Allan Wrote: Closing the loop for HG: Attended Mass, stayed for the communal Rosary, I met (to the best of my knowledge and belief) all of the necessary conditions to receive indulgences - and I grabbed as many of them as I could: Holy Communion, recited the Credo, Pater, Ave, Rosary, Sext, "My Lord and My God" at the elevation, prayed for Holy Father, Prayer Before Crucifix, etc. etc. etc. - all while forming an express and exclusive intention to attribute all and any graces, benefits, or indulgences to you and for your personal intentions, health, cure and whatever else is desired by or necessary for you.  About 90 minutes or so.

A thousand, million, million times thank you. And again, with all my heart, thank you.  :asianbow: :tiphat: :pray:

Appreciated, but unnecessary...I am in need of greater charity, and this experience was humbling and helpful for me as we'll. 
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#47
(12-12-2012, 05:17 PM)Scriptorium Wrote:
(12-11-2012, 05:51 PM)HailGilbert Wrote: SMKMI, Allan, Whitey, Shin and any other newbies here,

I've yet to recover my trust in Jesus and am still angry at Him for allowing me to be mentally ill in the first place. Looking into my background will hopefully be able to give you a clearer picture.

First, go to the thread from the Health and Food section called "The Curse Of OCPD":

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/inde...540.0.html

Second, go to the third and subsequent pages of this thread from the Secular News section called "Very important Vortex on Obamacare":

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/inde...886.0.html

I appreciate your prayers and good wishes. Many, many thank-yous in advance.

HG, hang in there. None of us can be in your shoes, nor give you advice which will see you through this. We offer prayers, but this is a one-on-one deal. Your dark night.

Perhaps if the focus shifted a little you'd see Jesus as suffering with you instead of zapping you from heaven like some mythical Zeus.

Some crosses are very hard to bear, well nigh impossible. What is it like to bear the sufferings of all men? This may be difficult, but you have to become a child. At my church we have this darling young girl. She's below five years of age. She was born with massive facial and neck problems and to this day relies on breathing and feeding tubes to survive. Her parents are worn ragged with the situation. And yet this young flower of a girl is a sight of pure joy. It isn't because she is ignorant. It is because she is in a position of pure trust in the hands of those who care for her. And that's the rub.

Life has all kinds of twists and turns, as St. Robert Southwell wrote, "Times go by turns and chances change by course, From foul to fair, from better hap to worse." Today is joy, tomorrow sorrow, and the next joy. Such trust may not remove your cross, but it may give you the strength to bear it with a joyful heart. I did say joyful.

Your soul is not disordered. Your body has the disorder. These are bound in one, but you are not bound to the lowest potential of this union. You have full freedom in Christ to engage and disengage at will. You may not believe me at this stage, but no suffering in this life is incumbent upon us.

We are redeemed children of God, who at any moment can access peace of soul through Christ. The sufferings of this world have no true claim on us. Leave behind your thoughts about normality. They are demonic distractions. You are yourself. Unique and unrepeatable. No other man is you. So what is normal? No two men are alike in anything besides our human nature. In that, you're normal.

And leave behind the thoughts on Fatima. Our Lady came to awaken the sinner from his sleep of deprivation, not to give anxiety to the faithful. Our Lord said, "Sufficient for a day is its own evil." Or as a sage once said, the pain we experience in life is like an arrow shot into us. Our obsession with resisting that first arrow, and the connected sorrow and grief, is a second one which we shoot into ourselves. The first arrow is physical pain, the second is the mental obsession and amplification of that, which distresses us further and leads to many an evil. Sufficient for a day is its own evil.

Resort to prayer, cultivate trust, and come into the joy the Lord has prepared for you. I wish you well, my friend.

"We are redeemed children of God, who at any moment can access peace of soul through Christ. The sufferings of this world have no true claim on us. Leave behind your thoughts about normality. They are demonic distractions. You are yourself. Unique and unrepeatable. No other man is you. So what is normal? No two men are alike in anything besides our human nature. In that, you're normal.

This is a very brief reply, with a multitude of thanks for your prayers and good wishes.

As far as the boldened part of the paragraph, that is not ever going to happen until I am cured first. Not one micro-millisecond before. What is normal, you ask? Not having OCPD, Asperger's Syndrome, clinical depression and the alcoholism gene anywhere in me. They have done a lot of damage in me throughout my life, both known and unknown. And I, of my free will, wouldn't wish these maladies on anyone on Earth.

Again, thank you for your prayers and good wishes. God keep you in His Holy Keeping through Our Lady of the Rosary.
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#48
(12-13-2012, 05:09 PM)HailGilbert Wrote:
(12-12-2012, 05:17 PM)Scriptorium Wrote:
(12-11-2012, 05:51 PM)HailGilbert Wrote: SMKMI, Allan, Whitey, Shin and any other newbies here,

I've yet to recover my trust in Jesus and am still angry at Him for allowing me to be mentally ill in the first place. Looking into my background will hopefully be able to give you a clearer picture.

First, go to the thread from the Health and Food section called "The Curse Of OCPD":

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/inde...540.0.html

Second, go to the third and subsequent pages of this thread from the Secular News section called "Very important Vortex on Obamacare":

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/inde...886.0.html

I appreciate your prayers and good wishes. Many, many thank-yous in advance.

HG, hang in there. None of us can be in your shoes, nor give you advice which will see you through this. We offer prayers, but this is a one-on-one deal. Your dark night.

Perhaps if the focus shifted a little you'd see Jesus as suffering with you instead of zapping you from heaven like some mythical Zeus.

Some crosses are very hard to bear, well nigh impossible. What is it like to bear the sufferings of all men? This may be difficult, but you have to become a child. At my church we have this darling young girl. She's below five years of age. She was born with massive facial and neck problems and to this day relies on breathing and feeding tubes to survive. Her parents are worn ragged with the situation. And yet this young flower of a girl is a sight of pure joy. It isn't because she is ignorant. It is because she is in a position of pure trust in the hands of those who care for her. And that's the rub.

Life has all kinds of twists and turns, as St. Robert Southwell wrote, "Times go by turns and chances change by course, From foul to fair, from better hap to worse." Today is joy, tomorrow sorrow, and the next joy. Such trust may not remove your cross, but it may give you the strength to bear it with a joyful heart. I did say joyful.

Your soul is not disordered. Your body has the disorder. These are bound in one, but you are not bound to the lowest potential of this union. You have full freedom in Christ to engage and disengage at will. You may not believe me at this stage, but no suffering in this life is incumbent upon us.

We are redeemed children of God, who at any moment can access peace of soul through Christ. The sufferings of this world have no true claim on us. Leave behind your thoughts about normality. They are demonic distractions. You are yourself. Unique and unrepeatable. No other man is you. So what is normal? No two men are alike in anything besides our human nature. In that, you're normal.

And leave behind the thoughts on Fatima. Our Lady came to awaken the sinner from his sleep of deprivation, not to give anxiety to the faithful. Our Lord said, "Sufficient for a day is its own evil." Or as a sage once said, the pain we experience in life is like an arrow shot into us. Our obsession with resisting that first arrow, and the connected sorrow and grief, is a second one which we shoot into ourselves. The first arrow is physical pain, the second is the mental obsession and amplification of that, which distresses us further and leads to many an evil. Sufficient for a day is its own evil.

Resort to prayer, cultivate trust, and come into the joy the Lord has prepared for you. I wish you well, my friend.

"We are redeemed children of God, who at any moment can access peace of soul through Christ. The sufferings of this world have no true claim on us. Leave behind your thoughts about normality. They are demonic distractions. You are yourself. Unique and unrepeatable. No other man is you. So what is normal? No two men are alike in anything besides our human nature. In that, you're normal.

This is a very brief reply, with a multitude of thanks for your prayers and good wishes.

As far as the boldened part of the paragraph, that is not ever going to happen until I am cured first. Not one micro-millisecond before. What is normal, you ask? Not having OCPD, Asperger's Syndrome, clinical depression and the alcoholism gene anywhere in me. They have done a lot of damage in me throughout my life, both known and unknown. And I, of my free will, wouldn't wish these maladies on anyone on Earth.

Again, thank you for your prayers and good wishes. God keep you in His Holy Keeping through Our Lady of the Rosary.

Scriptorium, very good post.

HailGilbert, you probably agree that nothing is impossible for God.  But it seems you think that this means only that God can cure your mental illness(es).  In reality, it also means that God can instead help you to accept it.  It seems that you absolutely deny that - and so you really deny that all things are possible for God.  Do I misunderstand you?

Accepting mental illness ideally might mean leaving behind thoughts of normality.  But I believe that God sometimes allows someone to continue to have such thoughts like this to a lesser degree (not so obsessive), but to seriously try to trust Him.  If they have cancer, leaving behind all thoughts of cancer might be near impossible to most people, but it is possible for them to put all their heart into trusting God.  You should make this effort too, I think. God will help anyone to trust Him better.

God bless you HailGilbert.  My prayers are with you.
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#49
Sometimes what I think is abnormal are just the labels that the Freudian industry puts on people.  For instance the medical establishment is just now realizing that meditation can help relieve pain but Catholics have known this for 2000 years.
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#50
Quote:HailGilbert, you probably agree that nothing is impossible for God.  But it seems you think that this means only that God can cure your mental illness(es).  In reality, it also means that God can instead help you to accept it.  It seems that you absolutely deny that - and so you really deny that all things are possible for God.  Do I misunderstand you?

God bless you HailGilbert.  My prayers are with you.

DoceMe, howdy. A very brief reply before I head out the door.

Yes, I didn't make myself clear on what I said. My bad.

Only God can cure the OCPD and Asperger's Syndrome. Why?

Because right now, human medical science - whether so-called "mainstream" or alternative -  has no cure for OCPD or Asperger's. Best that they are able to discover is that there is growing evidence both are genetically inherited.

Okay, I'm out the door now. Thanks again for your prayers and good wishes.
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