The latest on Medjugorje
#11
(11-29-2012, 06:42 PM)Cetil Wrote:
(11-29-2012, 11:37 AM)Hemidemisemiquaver Wrote:
(11-29-2012, 11:36 AM)Hemidemisemiquaver Wrote: I was recently reading the latest results of Medjugorje findings and it sickens me to the core! 

I will confess now that I am Novus Ordo and if the Vatican gives this Medjugorje hoax the green light , then I am right out of the Catholic Church, novus ord that is.  But there is no where else for me to go.   This will be a major crisis for me.
I can't belong to a church that lives a lie.

Cry(

Sorry, I meant to add this diabolical link

http://www.medjugorjetoday.tv/6880/rome-...je-report/



..

Wait and see. That is a very biased source. And remember the Church does not impose belief in private revelations on anyone. A good priest I knew once explained that truthfully the Church's authority to teach does not extend beyond public revelation. They can tell you there are theological errors in a private revelation, they can tell you it is "worthy of belief", they can tell you to stay away from it but they can't say definitively that it is true, or for that matter false. When in fact has the Magisterium itself ever pronounced on a private revelation? Never that I can think of. I see many negatives in Medj and I don't see how any Vatican commission will be positive on it. A more balanced article is here:  http://krestaintheafternoon.blogspot.com...gorje.html

C.



Thanks for  the interesting link Cetil, I shall go through it.
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#12
A "rebuttal" from the official (?) Medjugorje website, "www.medjugorge.org," of the criticism that one of the supposed messages to the visionaries claims "all faiths are equal." After admitting that the visionaries' Gospa did in fact state this, we are then provided with this explanation:

"The difficulty that some Catholics have had with this answer is based on the belief that the only salvation is within the Catholic Church. [b]But the Catholic Church does not believe this.[/b ]In fact, Vatican II in its Dogmatic Constitution on the Church "Lumen Genitum" says this: "Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God, and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience."

Interesting point-blank interpretation of Lumen Gentium by the Gospa!

http://www.medjugorje.org/faq.htm#no20

Honestly, taking into account the lists of unfulfilled prophecies made by these visionaries easily available with a moments' search on the internet, it seems much more probable that these people will make any manner of claim to boost the movement than it seems that any serious person or Church officials could think of approving such a transparently deluded event.
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#13
Cordobes, I will confess that I have not read all of  "Lumen Genitum.  Mea Culpa, I shall endeavour to read the whole Encyclical. 

So just this interpretation  you posted does not seem so alarming to me :  Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God, and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience."


  Interestingly, Yesterday's  OT reading at Mass was from  St. Paul to the Romans. 10: 9-18  Roman Missal.

If your lips confess that Jesus is Lord and if you believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, then you will be saved.
By believing from the heart you are made righteous; by confessing with your lips you are saved.  When scripture says: those who believe in him will have no cause for shame, it makes no distinction between Jew  and Greek:  all belong the same Lord who is  rich enough    however many ask for His help, for everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. 

There is more to St. Paul's teaching here, but I am interested  to discuss  highlighted  sentence, even for my own erudition.
As I understand St. Paul here ,  he is preaching that  anyone who believes in their heart and confesses that Jesus is our Lord and saviour , anyone who calls his name  is saved, and that means  anyone,  no distinctions of nationality. 
This all seems black and white to me, straight forward teaching from St. Paul.


So how can  Lumen Gentium be disagreeable to some when it states above that  ''those who sincerely seek God and is moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience  can be saved.''
Isn't St. Paul saying the same?
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#14
(11-30-2012, 10:16 AM)Cordobes Wrote: A "rebuttal" from the official (?) Medjugorje website, "www.medjugorge.org," of the criticism that one of the supposed messages to the visionaries claims "all faiths are equal." After admitting that the visionaries' Gospa did in fact state this, we are then provided with this explanation:

"The difficulty that some Catholics have had with this answer is based on the belief that the only salvation is within the Catholic Church. [b]But the Catholic Church does not believe this.[/b ]In fact, Vatican II in its Dogmatic Constitution on the Church "Lumen Genitum" says this: "Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God, and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience."

Interesting point-blank interpretation of Lumen Gentium by the Gospa!

http://www.medjugorje.org/faq.htm#no20

Honestly, taking into account the lists of unfulfilled prophecies made by these visionaries easily available with a moments' search on the internet, it seems much more probable that these people will make any manner of claim to boost the movement than it seems that any serious person or Church officials could think of approving such a transparently deluded event.

LG does nothing more than echo Baltimore Catechism Q 510-512.

BUT!!!! All faiths are not equal in such a sense as they are analogous to the religions from which they spring.

All salvation comes through Christ. Only invincible ignorance, subject to natural law, can be an out.

A devout Hindu who goes against what they believe, or even a devout Baptist, is destined for hellfire without perfect contrition.
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#15
I agree,  all faiths are not equal.  Can you point to where a Pope actually  said that?

In my way of  thinking is  that dialogue  with other faiths though could be a positive thing in that  we show  respect while at the same time opening their minds to the truth of Catholic teaching. 
Each side I guess is giong to say,, we have the truth, when infact they may have some of the truth but not all.
It's no use being at loggerheads with other faiths and making enemies, that way we will never make any inroads, all we can do is present the one true Catholic church with its teaching through dialogue. 
Isn't it better if all faiths , imperfect or not,  all join together biulding bridges for the betterment of world peace.

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#16
(12-01-2012, 03:28 AM)Hemidemisemiquaver Wrote: I agree,  all faiths are not equal.   Can you point to where a Pope actually  said that?

In my way of  thinking is   that dialogue  with other faiths though could be a positive thing in that  we show  respect while at the same time opening their minds to the truth of Catholic teaching.   
Each side I guess is giong to say,, we have the truth, when infact they may have some of the truth but not all.
It's no use being at loggerheads with other faiths and making enemies, that way we will never make any inroads, all we can do is present the one true Catholic church with its teaching through dialogue.   
Isn't it better if all faiths , imperfect or not,  all join together biulding bridges for the betterment of world peace.

Summa Contra Gentiles defines the manner in which we show the One True Faith.

World peace can only come from mankind not having the stain of Original Sin, or otherwise uniting in the True Faith and working beyond that burden which we carry in heredity
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#17
(12-01-2012, 03:28 AM)Hemidemisemiquaver Wrote: In my way of  thinking is   that dialogue  with other faiths though could be a positive thing in that  we show  respect while at the same time opening their minds to the truth of Catholic teaching.   

We've tried dialogue for nigh unto 50 years now. We talk and talk. The Church gives and the heretics, infidels and pagans take. No thanks. Give me back the Old Church!!
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#18
(12-01-2012, 06:10 AM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(12-01-2012, 03:28 AM)Hemidemisemiquaver Wrote: In my way of  thinking is   that dialogue  with other faiths though could be a positive thing in that  we show  respect while at the same time opening their minds to the truth of Catholic teaching.   

We've tried dialogue for nigh unto 50 years now. We talk and talk. The Church gives and the heretics, infidels and pagans take. No thanks. Give me back the Old Church!!

Yep.  Ecumenicism has been a failure.  It's time to give it up for a lost cause. 
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#19
There have been rumors that a special commision investigating Medjugorje would release its findings this month. the Vatican is denying that assertion.

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pe...t-imminent
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#20
(12-06-2012, 05:31 AM)Poche Wrote: There have been rumors that a special commision investigating Medjugorje would release its findings this month. the Vatican is denying that assertion.

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pe...t-imminent
Their obviously not appealing to the Holy Spirit on the matter. The answer would be already known.
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