Transubstantiation in modern science: How can substance change without accidents
(12-10-2012, 01:29 PM)jim111 Wrote:
(12-07-2012, 08:14 PM)newyorkcatholic Wrote: It's not a physical change, because by physical we mean "accidents."

However it's not spiritual, if we define spiritual as not related to matter. Bread is matter, it has no spirit.

So it's a metaphysical change.  We need to be careful about terms here. Physical vs spiritual is one distinction. Bread is physical, not spiritual. Physical vs metaphysical is a different distinction -- transubstantiation is a metaphysical change because it doesn't affect accidents.

Physical objects have both accident and substance. However a physical approach to physical objects considers only accidents. A metaphysical approach to physical objects considers accidents and substance.

Transubstantiation is a change in substance but not in accidents.

It has nothing to do with molecular theory, which is physicall. Physically, chemically, molecularly, atomically, in terms of extension, density, weight, color ... nothing has changed. However the substance has changed as we know.

In fact, the traditional pre-Christian understanding of accidents as properties which inhere of their nature in a substance is not correct. A Christian would have to see accidents differently: **in the normal course of things**, they inhere in a substance, but there is a exception. After transubstantiation, the accidents of bread and wine remain but without the substance, and the substance of Our Lord is there, but without related accidents.

The Real Presence is described as really, truly and substantially present. However, Our Lord is not physically present ("locally") in the Host.
Then what is substance? How can i determine the substance of something?

In the normal course of things, you can discuss the substance using logic and by experiencing the accidents. If I paint a piece of wood with red paint, I haven't changed the substance, which I know is wood. All the accidents are the same except the color (and the weight increases but extremely slightly, and so on).

Transubstantiation is the exception to this. It is not the normal course of things. By Divine Power, the substance is changed and we know this by faith. We cannot discuss Transubstantiation in the way we discuss everything else, which is with the assumption that accidents by their nature inhere in a substance and through the accidents we know the substance.

That's why we sing:

Praestet fides supplementum
Sensuum defectui.

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Re: Transubstantiation in modern science: How can substance change without accidents - by newyorkcatholic - 12-10-2012, 01:38 PM

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