Voris on EENS
#1
I recall the question of Michael Voris' and Church Militant TVs' (formerly Real Catholic TV) views on EENS popping up in a few threads over that past year (I've been lurking here since  2011 before joining FE forum recently). He has a Vortex episode up today that answers them.



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#2
As many of the things Mr. Voris says I thought that was rather clear.
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#3
(12-12-2012, 04:06 PM)Unum Sint Wrote: As many of the things Mr. Voris says I thought that was rather clear.

Yes, he is. During at least one of his retreat talks he  made ambiguous statements about the salvation of non-Catholics and it started a conversation.  I'm almost positive it was here since EENS in off limits virtually everywhere else. Not that it was a big deal, it just came to mind when I saw the video. I'll see if I can find the thread.
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#4
(12-12-2012, 04:44 PM)Et_cum_spiri220 Wrote:
(12-12-2012, 04:06 PM)Unum Sint Wrote: As many of the things Mr. Voris says I thought that was rather clear.

Yes, he is. During at least one of his retreat talks he  made ambiguous statements about the salvation of non-Catholics and it started a conversation.  I'm almost positive it was here since EENS in off limits virtually everywhere else. Not that it was a big deal, it just came to mind when I saw the video. I'll see if I can find the thread.

Yes, it was this thread: http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/inde...sg33834235

I think I was the first one to bring it up, because I wanted to hear the rest of the talk.  I found his statements problematic, though I also pointed out that his body of work does not suggest he has a liberal view of EENS or denies it (quite the contrary, really) so I thought it was more a case of him over-emphasizing the point of invincible ignorance (and not doing a very good job of it, at that) for the sake of his audience.
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Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
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#5
I just watched the video.  I think it's a good video. 

Although, I think it's important to at least mention that the answer to the question "Do non-Catholics go to Heaven?" is emphatically no.  Voris kind of touches on this by saying if a protestant gets to Heaven, it's despite he was a protestant, not because he was a protestant.  Our eternal resting place is determined by our disposition at the moment of death.  Our moment of death is, in most cases, determined by our way of life.  Protestants don't go to Heaven, not if they die as protestants.  One may live his life as a protestant, and at the last moment by the means of extraordinary grace, he may be moved to accepting the Catholic faith.  And that may happen without anyone knowing it.  It would appear to us that in this case, a protestant went to Heaven, but the truth is that the man who was a protestant went to Heaven, and he did so because he accepted the fullness of Jesus Christ in the Catholic faith.

I like to think of this analogy.  Say you're going to build a house.  You know nothing of building houses, and doing so is completely out of your power.  So you hire someone to build the house and have him draw up blueprints.  Then, you fire the contractor and throw away the blueprints and commit to doing it yourself.  If that house gets built, it's because at some point during the process the contractor came back with his blueprints and finished it.  Obviously we don't hire God, but the rest of the analogy works, I think.  We are given specific means to save our souls by almighty God, and rejecting those means to do it in another way will always be a fruitless endeavor.  The deed can only be accomplished one way.
More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com/

Go thy ways, old Jack;
die when thou wilt, if manhood, good manhood, be
not forgot upon the face of the earth, then am I a
shotten herring. There live not three good men
unhanged in England; and one of them is fat and
grows old: God help the while! a bad world, I say.
I would I were a weaver; I could sing psalms or any
thing. A plague of all cowards, I say still.
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#6
(12-12-2012, 07:07 PM)Mithrandylan Wrote:
(12-12-2012, 04:44 PM)Et_cum_spiri220 Wrote:
(12-12-2012, 04:06 PM)Unum Sint Wrote: As many of the things Mr. Voris says I thought that was rather clear.

Yes, he is. During at least one of his retreat talks he  made ambiguous statements about the salvation of non-Catholics and it started a conversation.  I'm almost positive it was here since EENS in off limits virtually everywhere else. Not that it was a big deal, it just came to mind when I saw the video. I'll see if I can find the thread.

Yes, it was this thread: http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/inde...sg33834235

I think I was the first one to bring it up, because I wanted to hear the rest of the talk.  I found his statements problematic, though I also pointed out that his body of work does not suggest he has a liberal view of EENS or denies it (quite the contrary, really) so I thought it was more a case of him over-emphasizing the point of invincible ignorance (and not doing a very good job of it, at that) for the sake of his audience.


Thanks. Yes that was the thread I was thinking about when I posted this. I should have dug through the archive a bit more and posted this in context but I was short on time and didn't want to forget about it later. I made those comments too hastily. I wasn't trying to imply Voris is a liberal. I  liked the video and remembered your earlier thread but couldn't find it.
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