Should we pray for the soul of the murderer/suicide from CT?
#61
(12-19-2012, 04:10 PM)Allan Wrote:
(12-19-2012, 01:50 AM)jake-the-rake Wrote: Religiously speaking, praying is the ONLY thing one CAN do for Adam Lanza. Everything else, sorta feels like revenge or peeing on his grave.

False dichotomy.  Think "both, and" not "either, or".

I usually do but in this case it's either the devil or holy water. And though I believe in free will, something tells me that the kid was also a victim.

Precisely because there's no real angle on it, just prayer works.

The sinner and the sin.
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#62
(12-19-2012, 05:35 PM)jake-the-rake Wrote:
(12-19-2012, 04:10 PM)Allan Wrote:
(12-19-2012, 01:50 AM)jake-the-rake Wrote: Religiously speaking, praying is the ONLY thing one CAN do for Adam Lanza. Everything else, sorta feels like revenge or peeing on his grave.

False dichotomy.  Think "both, and" not "either, or".

I usually do but in this case it's either the devil or holy water. And though I believe in free will, something tells me that the kid was also a victim.

Precisely because there's no real angle on it, just prayer works.

The sinner and the sin.

a victim of what?
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#63
A victim of the pervasive loss of the good, true and beautiful. Of trash culture that has replaced parenthood with pills. Of the culture of death. The culture of instant gratification, alienantion. The culture of no loving and caring fathers.

Victim of Evil, perpetrator of compulsive evil... which normally doesn't take such a dramatic form.
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#64
(12-20-2012, 03:03 AM)jake-the-rake Wrote: A victim of the pervasive loss of the good, true and beautiful. Of trash culture that has replaced parenthood with pills. Of the culture of death. The culture of instant gratification, alienantion. The culture of no loving and caring fathers.

Victim of Evil, perpetrator of compulsive evil... which normally doesn't take such a dramatic form.

Removing culpability, the efficacy of natural law, etc. is dangerous. In fact, I'd argue it encourages the "victim" mentality which pervades.

The guy apparently, according to a former schoolmate, had a webpage devoted to his worship of Satan.

http://www.examiner.com/article/former-c...-the-devil

There comes a point where no one can claim victimization. Many will find that the hard way at our particular judgement. God gives sufficient grace for all mankind to be saved. He doesn't leave anyone hanging. If there is a victim in Adam Lanza, he victimized himself first, in a spiritual sense, before victimizing others in a more tangible sense.
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#65
(12-20-2012, 04:01 AM)SMKMI Wrote:
(12-20-2012, 03:03 AM)jake-the-rake Wrote: A victim of the pervasive loss of the good, true and beautiful. Of trash culture that has replaced parenthood with pills. Of the culture of death. The culture of instant gratification, alienantion. The culture of no loving and caring fathers.

Victim of Evil, perpetrator of compulsive evil... which normally doesn't take such a dramatic form.

Removing culpability, the efficacy of natural law, etc. is dangerous. In fact, I'd argue it encourages the "victim" mentality which pervades.

The guy apparently, according to a former schoolmate, had a webpage devoted to his worship of Satan.

http://www.examiner.com/article/former-c...-the-devil

There comes a point where no one can claim victimization. Many will find that the hard way at our particular judgement. God gives sufficient grace for all mankind to be saved. He doesn't leave anyone hanging. If there is a victim in Adam Lanza, he victimized himself first, in a spiritual sense, before victimizing others in a more tangible sense.
Yes but who knows if before he died maybe he made an act of perfect contrition. In that case, he would not be lost. We should pray for the repose of his soul.
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#66
(12-20-2012, 04:03 AM)Poche Wrote:
(12-20-2012, 04:01 AM)SMKMI Wrote:
(12-20-2012, 03:03 AM)jake-the-rake Wrote: A victim of the pervasive loss of the good, true and beautiful. Of trash culture that has replaced parenthood with pills. Of the culture of death. The culture of instant gratification, alienantion. The culture of no loving and caring fathers.

Victim of Evil, perpetrator of compulsive evil... which normally doesn't take such a dramatic form.

Removing culpability, the efficacy of natural law, etc. is dangerous. In fact, I'd argue it encourages the "victim" mentality which pervades.

The guy apparently, according to a former schoolmate, had a webpage devoted to his worship of Satan.

http://www.examiner.com/article/former-c...-the-devil

There comes a point where no one can claim victimization. Many will find that the hard way at our particular judgement. God gives sufficient grace for all mankind to be saved. He doesn't leave anyone hanging. If there is a victim in Adam Lanza, he victimized himself first, in a spiritual sense, before victimizing others in a more tangible sense.
Yes but who knows if before he died maybe he made an act of perfect contrition. In that case, he would not be lost. We should pray for the repose of his soul.

He didn't "die" like as if he was bleeding to death from the cops shooting him. He blew his head open.
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#67
(12-20-2012, 04:05 AM)SMKMI Wrote: He didn't "die" like as if he was bleeding to death from the cops shooting him. He blew his head open.

Depending on how you shoot yourself, you can stay alive for a relatively long time.  A kid at my school shot himself in the head, and apparently he died slowly.
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#68
(12-20-2012, 04:10 AM)CollegeCatholic Wrote:
(12-20-2012, 04:05 AM)SMKMI Wrote: He didn't "die" like as if he was bleeding to death from the cops shooting him. He blew his head open.

Depending on how you shoot yourself, you can stay alive for a relatively long time.  A kid at my school shot himself in the head, and apparently he died slowly.

I personally hope Adam Lanza died slowly and made an act of perfect contrition. But I deal with facts and the facts leading up to his death spell out that he's, in all likelihood, unfortunately, roasting in Hell.

At least the little kids he offed, if they weren't baptized and weren't at the age of reason aren't in Hell. At least this is a consolation. Of course, there's no assurance they are in heaven either. A wash.
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#69
I do not think there is nor ought to be any link between any estimation/best guess about where the killer is, and the question of whether or not we ought to pray for him. 

He is where he is.  We cannot know with certainty.  Praying for the dead is a spiritual work of mercy.  Mercy is shown to those who show it to others.  We desire God's mercy.  Ergo, absent personal divine revelation that he is in hell, we pray for him. 

Connect the dots fellas.  Not hard.
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#70
(12-20-2012, 04:40 PM)Allan Wrote: I do not think there is nor ought to be any link between any estimation/best guess about where the killer is, and the question of whether or not we ought to pray for him. 

He is where he is.  We cannot know with certainty.  Praying for the dead is a spiritual work of mercy.  Mercy is shown to those who show it to others.  We desire God's mercy.  Ergo, absent personal divine revelation that he is in hell, we pray for him. 

Connect the dots fellas.  Not hard.

Well said, Allan.
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