Daily vitamins?
#31
(01-01-2013, 07:32 PM)Rosarium Wrote:
(01-01-2013, 07:19 PM)Heinrich Wrote: With my thirty years' experience in bodybuilding, power lifting, martial arts and other general fitness areas, I have to say I disagree with you based on this experience.

I do not have thirty years, but I have the years of others to cite and my own experiences.

I will not fault others for using it (it won't hurt most of the time), but I do think the modern fitness arena is too controlled by those who have financial interest in selling things for profit, rather than getting results.

I do know that George Hackenschmidt, Arthur Saxon, and other greats in the physical arena did not use such things without detriment.

This would be interesting to discuss. I do not think I have discussed physical culture at all on this forum.

This post reminds me of the "I am not a doctor, but I play one on TV."

Yes, every single product produced throughout the world is controlled by those who have financial interests in selling them. The 'need' created and the marketing for health supplements is indeed deceptive and makes use of the bandwagon propaganda ruse quite well. Open up any bodybuilding magazine. But that does not mean protein supplements in and of themselves do not lend themselves to healthy dietary uses and performance enhancements.

I have no idea who George H. and Arthur S. are.

Physical culture in these United States(bodybuilding, fitness competitions, etc.) is one of unfurled vanity and licentiousness. But that does not mean responsible, optimal eating and training is.
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#32
I heard it once said that Americans have the most expensive urine in the world.  :LOL:
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#33
(01-02-2013, 02:28 PM)Zedta Wrote: I heard it once said that Americans have the most expensive urine in the world.  :LOL:

From a jealous Canadian, no doubt.
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#34
Ros, I've come to the same conclusion as you - a lot of the protein just ends up getting excreted in the end.  Our bodies are pretty good at extracting the 10%+ protein found in even the least protein-dense fruits and vegetables, and complete proteins can be found even in vegan diets.

I really don't have anything against protein supplementation as a general rule, especially when you can point to other benefits (like Heinrich did); but the excess protein can be a bit rough on your kidneys.  I know otherwise healthy guys my age who are on the high end of microalbuminuria...the earliest signs of kidney dysfunction.
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#35
(01-02-2013, 02:28 PM)Zedta Wrote: I heard it once said that Americans have the most expensive urine in the world.  :LOL:

Couldn't you say that about anyone who consumes expensive food or drink?

Heinrich, I ordered a thing of protein.  We'll give this a try for a few months and see how it goes.  Thanks for the advice. 
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#36
(01-03-2013, 04:28 PM)Guardian Wrote:
(01-02-2013, 02:28 PM)Zedta Wrote: I heard it once said that Americans have the most expensive urine in the world.  :LOL:

Couldn't you say that about anyone who consumes expensive food or drink?

Heinrich, I ordered a thing of protein.  We'll give this a try for a few months and see how it goes.  Thanks for the advice. 

Stay strong, my friend:

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#37
(01-03-2013, 04:28 PM)Guardian Wrote:
(01-02-2013, 02:28 PM)Zedta Wrote: I heard it once said that Americans have the most expensive urine in the world.  :LOL:

Couldn't you say that about anyone who consumes expensive food or drink?

Ya it could.

But that comment was more accurately directed at the HUGE amounts of vitamins. minerals and supplements, which are largely wasted, because the fact is; you get plenty of solid nutrients from healthy food and its better absorbed in that form. Most vitamins are excreted in the urine (especially the water soluble ones, like C and D and some B), the fat soluble ones can become problems because they can build up before excretion and one of the B vitamins can cause neurological symptoms if over dosed. There are other hazards, like from vitamin E which can cause bleeding. Throw in the fact that many who take these larger than needed does are elderly and since the kidneys filter much of this out, it can be a concern over time. Things are changing in medicine all the time, for instance; salt has been said to be bad if you have high blood pressure, but recent studies have shown that too little salt can promote kidney failure by allowing Renin to remain in the kidneys and not be eliminated quickly enough. Renin retention is the biggest cause of kidney failure.
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#38
(01-02-2013, 01:09 PM)Heinrich Wrote: Yes, every single product produced throughout the world is controlled by those who have financial interests in selling them. The 'need' created and the marketing for health supplements is indeed deceptive and makes use of the bandwagon propaganda ruse quite well. Open up any bodybuilding magazine. But that does not mean protein supplements in and of themselves do not lend themselves to healthy dietary uses and performance enhancements.
My post was not a formal argument. I am not saying that they cannot help, but that they are not as necessary as one may be lead to believe.

Quote:I have no idea who George H. and Arthur S. are.
Arthur Saxon is the greatest strongman who ever lived (strongest in some respects too), and George was someone who could put anybody into submission. If one can be the best without it, then it is clear that training and personal biological characterists are more important than the macronutrient supplement.

He never took protein shakes and in fact ate a typical German diet as far as I know (I've read this books).

Quote:Physical culture in these United States(bodybuilding, fitness competitions, etc.) is one of unfurled vanity and licentiousness. But that does not mean responsible, optimal eating and training is.
True, but the culture has its influence. The bodybuilding influence for instance is great enough to be counter productive for strength gains.

The strongest people (trained to be strong) did not use protein shakes.

If one particularly desires to gain weight, then that is another issue, but also for that, it is not necessary.
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#39
(01-03-2013, 05:47 PM)Heinrich Wrote:
(01-03-2013, 04:28 PM)Guardian Wrote:
(01-02-2013, 02:28 PM)Zedta Wrote: I heard it once said that Americans have the most expensive urine in the world.  :LOL:

Couldn't you say that about anyone who consumes expensive food or drink?

Heinrich, I ordered a thing of protein.  We'll give this a try for a few months and see how it goes.  Thanks for the advice. 

Stay strong, my friend:

Olympic weightlifting can be inspiring (first lift at :40):



Note, all numbers are SI units, so those are kilograms. That first lift he does is 363 lbs. He weighs 170 lbs.

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#40
(01-02-2013, 05:35 PM)Pheo Wrote: Ros, I've come to the same conclusion as you - a lot of the protein just ends up getting excreted in the end.  Our bodies are pretty good at extracting the 10%+ protein found in even the least protein-dense fruits and vegetables, and complete proteins can be found even in vegan diets.
I have a vegan diet.

Quote:I really don't have anything against protein supplementation as a general rule, especially when you can point to other benefits (like Heinrich did); but the excess protein can be a bit rough on your kidneys.  I know otherwise healthy guys my age who are on the high end of microalbuminuria...the earliest signs of kidney dysfunction.

I do not think protein supplements will cause harm. I think they are just a waste of money.

Protein makes up so little of muscle mass anyway.
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