Homosexual Marriage. Why is the Church picking this battleground ?
#21
(01-01-2013, 04:33 AM)Poche Wrote: Good answer.  But when push comes to shove can you see many of the nervous ordo crowd becoming martyrs?  I cannot see why they would want to do that when the last 40 years have been a long string of capitulations.


Well, guess what?  The Europe that went protestant came from the traditional Latin Mass.  I guess I am one of the 'nervous ordo' crowd because that is the Mass I have daily access to.  I hope to have the grace to be faithful even at the cost of my life.  I have prayed in that manner since before the age of 10,

There has always been capitualtions.  Take the England  of Henry VIII the adultering murderer for example. How many bishops followed him instead of Christ and the Holy Father? 

I rest my case.
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As to why this battleground?  More faithful bishops have begun to be chosen.  The true family is a reflection of the Holy Trinity.  The homosexual agenda wil not stop at a fake marriage but will impose itself on all other families.  Incredibly stupid things like getting rid of the terms mother, father, husband, and wife as is happening in Canada and elsewhere.  But we are wired to want and need a real mother and a real father.  We have all kinds of statitstics as to what fatherlessness does in society.  The further destruction of the family with easy divorce, cohabitation, sodomy, etc.  will continue the downward slide of the whole society.

The perversion that sodomy is promoting even to kindergartners twists the minds and psyches of the children.  The pain, confusion, and depression that comes with that and the promiscuity that follows is incalculable.  And not only the death of the soul can be had by the enemy but the destruction of the image of God in family and even in the unborn as the wages of sin is death.  The practice of homosexuality is an intrinsic evil and the result is death-of the soul.
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#22
For the effects of sodomite "marriage" in the US, see this link http://www.massresistance.org/docs/marri...index.html


Quote:What same-sex "marriage" has done to Massachusetts
It's far worse than most people realize

by Brian Camenker
October 2008 Updated June 2012

Anyone who thinks that same-sex "marriage" is a benign eccentricity which won't affect the average person should consider what it has done to Massachusetts since 2004. It's become a hammer to force the acceptance and normalization of homosexuality on everyone. The slippery slope is real. New radical demands never cease. What has happened in the last several years is truly frightening.

In this article:

•  The public schools
•  Public health
•  Hospitals
•  Domestic violence
•  Business & employment
•  Legal profession & judicial system
•  Adoption & birth certificates
•  Government mandates
•  The public square
•  Churches being harassed
•  The media
•  Politics
•  Rule of law
•  Conclusion
On November 18, 2003, the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court announced its Goodridge opinion, declaring that it was unconstitutional not to allow same-sex "marriage." Six months later, despite public outrage, homosexual "weddings" began to take place. And that was just the beginning . . .

The public schools
The homosexual "marriage" onslaught in public schools across the state started soon after the November 2003 court ruling.

At my own children's high school there was a school-wide assembly to celebrate same-sex "marriage" in early December 2003. It featured an array of speakers, including teachers at the school who announced that they would be "marrying" their same-sex partners and starting families, either through adoption or artificial insemination. Literature on same-sex marriage - how it is now a normal part of society - was handed out to the students.
Within months it was brought into the middle schools. In September 2004, an 8th-grade teacher in Brookline, Mass., told National Public Radio that the marriage ruling had opened up the door for teaching homosexuality. "In my mind, I know that, 'OK, this is legal now.' If somebody wants to challenge me, I'll say, 'Give me a break. It's legal now,'" she told NPR. She added that she now discusses gay sex with her students as explicitly as she desires. For example, she said she tells the kids that lesbians can have vaginal intercourse using sex toys.
By the following year it was in elementary school curricula - with hostility toward parents who disagreed. Kindergartners in Lexington, Mass. were given copies of a picture book, Who's in a Family?, telling them that same-sex couples are just another kind of family, just like their own parents. When David Parker - parent of a kindergartner - calmly refused to leave a school meeting unless officials agreed to notify him when discussing homosexuality or transgenderism with his son, the school had him arrested and jailed overnight.
The next year, second graders at the same school were read a book, King & King, about two men who fall in love and marry each other, ending with a picture of them kissing. When parents Robb and Robin Wirthlin complained, they were told that the school had no obligation to notify them or allow them to opt their child out.
In 2007 a federal judge ruled that because of "gay marriage" in Massachusetts, parents have no rights regarding the teaching of homosexual relationships in schools. The previous year the Parkers and Wirthlins had filed a federal civil rights lawsuit to force the schools to notify parents and allow them to opt out their elementary-school children when homosexual-related subjects were taught. The federal judge dismissed the case. The appeals judges later upheld the first judge's ruling that because same-sex marriage is legal in Massachusetts, the school actually had a duty to normalize homosexual relationships to children; and schools have no obligation to notify parents or let them opt out their children. Acceptance of homosexuality had become a matter of good citizenship!

Think about that: Because same-sex marriage is "legal," federal judges have ruled that the schools now have a duty to portray homosexual relationships as normal to children, despite what parents think or believe!
The judges also allowed the school to overrule the Massachusetts parental notification law on this issue, with the claim that homosexuality or same-sex marriages are not "human sexuality issues" (to which the law refers).
School libraries have also radically changed. School libraries across the state, from elementary school to high school, now have expanding shelves of books to normalize homosexual behavior and "lifestyle" in the minds of kids, some of them quite explicit and even pornographic. Parents' complaints are ignored or met with hostility.
A large, slick hardcover book celebrating Massachusetts homosexual marriages began to appear in many school libraries across the state. Titled Courting Equality, it was supplied to schools by a major homosexual activist organization. Its apparent purpose was to teach kids that "gay marriage" was a great civil rights victory.
It has become commonplace in Massachusetts schools for teachers to display photos of their same-sex "spouses" and occasionally bring their "spouses" to school functions. At one point, both high schools in my own town had principals who were "married" to their same-sex partners who came to school and were introduced to the students.
"Gay days" in schools are considered necessary to fight "intolerance" against same-sex relationships. Hundreds of high schools and even middle schools across the state now hold "gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender days." In my own town, a school committee member announced that combating "homophobia" was now a top priority. The schools not only "celebrate" homosexual marriage, but have moved beyond to promote other behaviors such as cross-dressing and transsexuality.
As a result, many more children in Massachusetts appear to be self-identifying as "gay." According to the Massachusetts Youth Risk Behavior Survey, given to students in high schools across the state, between 2005 and 2009 both the percentage of kids "identifying as gay" and who had same-sex contact rose by approximately 50%. Although this bi-annual survey is unscientific and largely unreliable, it still shows a disturbing trend among those students who chose to answer the questions in this way. (At a minimum, it implies that these answers are being encouraged.)

Once homosexuality is normalized, all boundaries begin to come down. The schools have already moved on to normalizing transgenderism (including cross-dressing and sex changes). The state-funded Commission on Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Youth, which goes into schools with homosexual and transgender programs and activities for children, includes prominent activists who are transsexuals.
In 2006 a cross-dressing man undergoing a sex-change operation was brought into a third-grade class in Newton to teach the children that there are now "different kinds of families." School officials told a mother that her complaints to the principal were considered "inappropriate behavior"! She ended up removing her child from the school.

Public health
The Commissioner of the Mass. Dept. of Public Health, who is "married" to another man, told a crowd of kids at the state-sponsored Youth Pride event in 2007 that it's "wonderful being gay" and he wants to make sure there's enough HIV testing available for all of them.
The STD test required to obtain a marriage license was eliminated five months after same-sex "marriages" began in Massachusetts, by a bill quietly signed by Gov. Mitt Romney. This was despite an increase in syphilis cases and other STDs in homosexual men in Massachusetts at the time (according to the Mass. Dept. of Public Health).
In recent years state funding for HIV/AIDS programs has gone up considerably in Massachusetts, along with the proportion of homosexual-related cases. According to the Massachusetts Dept. of Public Health, even though the total number of new HIV/AIDS diagnoses has declined, the proportion caused by male homosexual behavior rose by over 30% from 2000-2009. Thus, for the last several years the state has budgeted $30-$35 million per year for these programs. This dwarfs spending on any other viral disease that we are aware of.
A hideously obscene booklet on "gay" practices created by health officials was given out in a high school. Citing "the right to marry" as one of the "important challenges" in a place where "it's a great time to be gay," the Mass. Dept. of Public Health helped the AIDS Action Committee produce The Little Black Book: Queer in the 21st Century. It was given to teens at Brookline High School on April 30, 2005. Among other things, it gives "tips" to boys on how to perform oral sex on other males, masturbate other males, and how to "safely" have someone urinate on you for sexual pleasure. It even included a directory of bars in Boston where young men meet for anonymous sex.

Hospitals
Because of the purported necessity to cater to "LGBT health" issues, nearly every major Boston hospital has become an active supporter of the radical homosexual movement. This includes marching in the "Gay Pride" parades, holding homosexual events, and putting on numerous "gay health"-related seminars. This is one of the most disturbing things that's happened since "gay marriage" became "legal."
A major Boston hospital threatened to fire a physician when he objected to its promotion of homosexual behavior. In 2011 a prominent physician at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston -- a large Harvard-affiliated hospital -- objected to the hospital being involved with "Gay Pride" activities. He also pointed out to his superiors the medical health risks of homosexuality, and said that he and others at the hospital considered homosexual acts to be unnatural and immoral. The hospital then threatened to fire him, telling him that same-sex marriage is "legal" and that his comments constituted "harassment and discrimination." After a "hearing" he was allowed to keep his job, but was told to apologize and to keep his opinions on these matters to himself.
In 2012 the Boston Medical Center purchased a prominent full-color ad (full page, inside cover) in the Boston Gay Pride guide book. The content? The entire ad promoted the hospital's STD and AIDS clinics for the "pride" participants - particularly its screening services for gonorrhea, chlamydia, syphilis, hepatitis, and HIV.

Domestic violence
Every year more state money goes to deal with the high incidence of homosexual domestic violence. Since "gay marriage" began, Massachusetts has one of the highest proportions of homosexuals living as couples in the country. Given the extremely dysfunctional nature of homosexual relationships, the Massachusetts Legislature has felt the need to spend more and more money to deal with that problem. "Gay domestic violence programs" have also become a major lobbying push in the State House by the homosexual group MassEquality. This year it comprises a considerable portion of a $5.5 million state budget item (according to MassEquality). This is up from $100,000 budgeted in 2007.
"Gay domestic partner violence" literature (funded by the state) is now distributed at virtually every public homosexual event - including to children at "Youth Pride" events, GLSEN conferences, "gay straight alliance" high school clubs - and especially at the various events and parades during "Gay Pride" week.
It has become such a problem that a public candlelight vigil in downtown Boston is held every year by a coalition of Massachusetts homosexual groups "to remember victims of recent LGBT intimate partner violence, and to raise awareness of this important community issue."

Business and employment
All insurance in Massachusetts must now recognize same-sex "married" couples in their coverage. This includes auto insurance, health insurance, life insurance, etc.
Businesses must recognize same-sex "married" couples in all their benefits, activities, etc., regarding both employees and customers.
People can now get fired from their jobs for expressing religious objections to same-sex "marriage." In 2009, a deputy manager at a Brookstone store in Boston was fired from his job for mentioning his belief to another manager who had kept bringing up the subject with him that day. Brookstone's letter of termination (quoted on local TV news) said his comment was "inappropriate" because "in the State of Massachusetts, same-sex marriage is legal."
The wedding industry is required to serve the homosexual community if requested. Wedding photographers, halls, caterers, etc., must accept same-sex marriage events or be held liable for discrimination.
Businesses are often "tested" for tolerance by homosexual activists. Groups of homosexual activists go into restaurants or bars and publicly kiss and fondle each other to test whether the establishment demonstrates sufficient "equality" - now that homosexual marriage is "legal." Then they report "tolerance violators" to authorities, and businesses can be fined and punished. In fact, more and more overt displays of homosexual affection are seen in public places across the state to reinforce "marriage equality."
Legal profession and judicial system
The Massachusetts Bar Exam now tests lawyers on their knowledge of same-sex marriage "law." In 2007, a Boston man failed the Massachusetts bar exam because he refused to answer a question about homosexual marriage.
In many firms, lawyers in Massachusetts practicing family law must now attend seminars on homosexual "marriage." Issues regarding homosexual "families" are now firmly entrenched in the Massachusetts legal system. In addition, there are now several homosexual judges overseeing the Massachusetts family courts.
In 2011 the Governor appointed Barbara Lenk, a "married" lesbian activist, to be a state Supreme Court Justice. She has said that the interpretation of law "evolves and develops" because "minority groups [e.g., homosexuals] see certain things differently based on their own experiences."

Adoption and birth certificates
In the year after the "gay marriage" ruling, the state's adoption and foster care workers went through a massive indoctrination on "LGBT youth awareness." This included employees and managers at the Mass. Dept. of Social Services. These sessions were run by the radical National Gay and Lesbian Task Force (which once awarded a "Leather Leadership Award" to the owner of a pornographic video company). The emphasis was that those working with children must be trained that homosexuality (and transgenderism) are normal. At one session, the trainer announced that the new motto is, "To tolerate is an assault; you have to accept" this behavior.
Homosexual "married" couples can now demand to be allowed to adopt children - through any agency. In 2006 Catholic Charities decided to abandon handling adoptions rather submit to regulations requiring them to allow homosexuals to adopt the children in their care.
Adoption agencies have said that 40% of their adoptions are to homosexual couples. Anecdotal reports also indicate that many adoption agencies now favor homosexuals over normal couples.
In 2006 the Massachusetts Department of Social Services (DSS) honored two men "married" to each other as their "Parents of the Year." The men had adopted a baby through DSS (against the wishes of the baby's birth parents). According to news reports, the day after that adoption was final, DSS approached the men about adopting a second child.
The state-funded Massachusetts Adoption Resource Exchange (MARE) has been pushing "GLBT" family formation and holds "adoption parties" where homosexual couples have been encouraged to attend (along with others) and see "available" children in person. MARE places prominent ads in GLBT publications.
Birth certificates in Massachusetts have been changed from "mother" and "father" to "mother/parent" and "father/parent." Two men or two women can now be listed as the "parents" on birth certificates! Homosexuals who adopt can revise children's' existing birth certificates.
A court ruled in 2012 that if a child is "born of a same-sex marriage," there is no need for adoption by a non-biological parent. Thus, they would both be the listed as the "parents" on the child's birth certificate, without any formal proceedings necessary. (The other biological parent is not noted on the official birth certificate.)

Government mandates
Marriage licenses and certificates in Massachusetts now have "Party A" and "Party B" instead of "husband" and "wife." Imagine having a marriage license like that.
In 2004, Governor Mitt Romney ordered Justices of the Peace to perform homosexual marriages when requested or be fired. Several Justices of the Peace immediately decided to resign. That order still stands. Also Town Clerks were forced by the Governor's office to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples.
In 2008 Massachusetts changed the state Medicare laws to include homosexual "married" couples in the coverage.

The public square
Since gay "marriage" began, public "Gay Pride" events have become more prominent in the public square. There are more politicians and corporations participating, and even police organizations take part. And the envelope gets pushed further and further. For example: the annual profane "Dyke March" through downtown Boston, and the 2008 "transgender" parade in Northampton that included bare-chested women who have had their breasts surgically removed (so they could "become" men). Governor Patrick even marched with his 17-year-old "out lesbian" daughter in the 2008 Boston Pride event, right behind a sadomasochist "leather" group brandishing a black and blue flag, lashes and chains!

Churches being harassed
Churches and religious people have been demonized, harassed and threatened - with no punishment for the perpetrators. Since the "gay marriage" ruling, those who publicly disagree with "gay marriage" or the normalcy of homosexuality - or hold events promoting traditional beliefs - are targets of militant retribution by homosexual activists. Police and public officials have shown no interest in stopping this. We are not aware of a single homosexual activist arrested (or charged with any "hate crime") for disrupting a religious event or threatening and harassing people at a church. For example:

In 2012 someone threatened to burn down a Catholic Church in Acushnet which posted the words "Two men are friends, not spouses" on its outdoor sign. The church immediately received a flood of profane phone calls. At least one person threatened to burn down the church. An activist nailed a sign to church's fence saying, "Spread love not hate." Activists staged a protest outside of the Sunday Mass to intimidate parishioners with a sign saying, "It is legal for two men or women to be spouses." Neither the police nor the District Attorney pursued the threats as a hate crime or other offense.
In 2010 a Catholic elementary school balked at letting a lesbian couple enroll their son. As a result, the school was excoriated in the media and even by the local liberal state representative as "discriminatory." The privately-run Catholic Schools Foundation then threatened to withhold funding to the school unless it relented. The Archdiocese eventually backed down and the school reversed its policy.
In 2009 angry homosexual activists terrorized the Park Street Church in Boston while it was holding an ex-gay religious training session inside. They demonstrated next to the doors and windows with signs, screaming homosexual slogans. One of them held a bullhorn against the window outside the meeting, bellowing at the participants inside. Police did nothing to stop them, even though they were standing inside the historic cemetery adjacent to the church.
In 2006 dozens of screaming homosexual activists drowned out the speakers at an outdoor pro-marriage rally in Worcester organized by Catholic Vote, yelling "Bigots" and disgusting chants. Police did not stop them, even though the rally had a permit. When one of the rioters rushed the stage and started shouting, a rally organizer tried to lead her to the side. She subsequently sued that organizer for assault! He went through a four-day trial and was acquitted by a jury. But no charges were filed against any of the rioters.
In 2006 a group of homosexual activists with signs taunted and screamed at people entering and leaving the Tremont Temple Baptist Church in downtown Boston, which was holding a nationally televised pro-marriage event inside.
In 2005 hundreds of homosexual activists terrorized the Tremont Temple Baptist Church with makeshift coffins, screaming obscenities through loudspeakers as the national pro-family group Focus on the Family held a religious conference inside. The crowd was so threatening that attendees could not leave the church for the lunch break. The Boston riot police stood in front of the church doors, but did nothing to disperse the protesters who were also completely blocking the street.

The media
The Boston media regularly features articles and news stories using homosexual "married" couples where regular married couples would normally be used. It's "equal," they insist, so there must be no difference in how marriage is portrayed. Also, the newspaper advice columns now deal with homosexual "marriage" issues - and how to properly accept it.
A number of news reporters and TV anchors are "out" homosexuals (at least one openly "married") who march in the "Gay Pride" parades and publicly participate in other homosexual events.

Politics
A climate of fear has kept politicians at all levels from disagreeing with or criticizing same-sex marriage since it became "legal." Public officials are afraid of being accused of wanting to "take away rights." Those who support traditional marriage rarely discuss it publicly. And this fear has expanded to suppress any meaningful debate on all homosexual related issues. Additionally, it has brought a feeling of intimidation among pro-family people across the state.
The Massachusetts Republican establishment has become arguably the most "pro-gay marriage" GOP in America. The state GOP House and Senate leaders now both publicly support "gay marriage," as did the recent Mass. GOP candidates for Governor and Lt. Governor. GOP candidates for office are told not even to discuss it.
In April 2009, the Chairman of the Mass. Republican Party told a homosexual newspaper that the GOP would no longer oppose "gay marriage." Then Chairman Jennifer Nassour, interviewed on the front page of Bay Windows, assured the gay community that the state GOP would "steer clear of social" issues such as "opposition to same-sex marriage and abortion." The newly elected chairman, Bob Maginn, does not talk about the issue.
Every Massachusetts state-wide elected official and member of Congress (but one) now publicly supports "gay marriage." The one (apparent) holdout, Republican US Senator Scott Brown, strenuously avoids the issue, saying that it's "settled law" and not worth fighting over.
Rule of law
Same-sex "marriage" came to Massachusetts through a radical court's narrow ruling. Because of that, there is an often depressing sense of helplessness that pervades this issue. The marriage statute was never changed, and it has been convincingly argued that the whole process was in violation of the state constitution. The Governor simply went along. And the Legislature acted to block popular votes on two separate constitutional amendments protecting marriage, after sufficient signatures had been gathered for each. The rule of law seems further lost with every new outrage imposed on the people.
Even the Massachusetts Law Library (online) shows no law legalizing same-sex marriage, only a court opinion. It is a dangerous precedent to allow such sweeping judicial activism to stand as law, enabling everything that has followed from it. It should serve as a warning to states across the country.

In conclusion
Same-sex "marriage" hangs over society, hammering citizens with the force of law. Once it gets a foothold, society becomes more oppressive. Unfortunately, it was imposed on the people of Massachusetts through a combination of radical, arrogant judges and pitifully cowardly politicians. The homosexual movement has used that combination to its continued advantage around the country.

It's pretty clear that this radical movement is obsessed with marriage not because large numbers of homosexuals actually want to marry each other. A small percentage actually "marry." (In fact, over the last several months, the Sunday Boston Globe's marriage section hasn't had any photos of homosexual marriages; at first it was full of them.) Research shows that homosexuals' relationships are fundamentally dysfunctional on many levels, and real "marriage" as we know it isn't something they can achieve, or even truly desire.

The push for "gay marriage" is really is about putting the legal stamp of approval on homosexuality and forcing its acceptance on (otherwise unwilling) citizens and our social, political, and commercial institutions.

To the rest of America: You've been forewarned.

 

Copyright © 2012 MassResistance
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#23
(01-01-2013, 04:15 AM)ggreg Wrote: Good answer.  But when push comes to shove can you see many of the nervous ordo crowd becoming martyrs?  I cannot see why they would want to do that when the last 40 years have been a long string of capitulations.

They contracepted for an easier life, why would they throw their life away now?

I think most of them at the moment probably do have the intention of enduring martyrdom when pushed to it but whether or not they will withstand temptation when the time comes remains to be seen.  Historically, it seems that most people don't.  However, the way society is going now, we may be heading into a French Revolution type situation where a satanic government will demand more than the incense offering, but also demand that Catholics drink the blood (not literally) of their martyred brethren.

While I'm not confident that the American bishops are willing to suffer martyrdom, I'm fairly certain they'd be appalled at having to directly participate in the destruction of faithful Catholics.  It's one thing to sin by neglect but another to dip ones hands in blood.
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#24
(01-01-2013, 04:48 AM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(01-01-2013, 02:57 AM)ggreg Wrote: Personally, I don't get why they see homo marriage as something that will change society significantly  more than other moral declines do.

Because society is headed toward the direction of saying the Church's teaching here is hateful and cannot be tolerared. Hate groups aren't given non-profit status, don't get the hospitals licensed, don't get their schools accredited, and generally people who publicly belong to hate groups have trouble making an income. The Church's other teachings can be dismissed by society as antiquarian, but the Church's stance on homosecuality could eventually lead the Church back into the catacombs.   
I think this is very likely. My wife and I were speaking about this subject just yesterday. I think the tipping point may be when the State tries to force all groups to perform their "marriage ceremonies." My wife predicted that after a law is passed which gives no real exemptions for religious exemptions or otherwise, people will specifically seek out Catholic priests and ask them for a marriage. The real ones will refuse and go to jail - at best.
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#25
The Obama Administration argued before the Supreme Court that the government had the power to require the Catholic Church to ordain women. Not much of a jump for them to say they have the power to require the Church to perform gay marriage.
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#26
This:

(01-01-2013, 04:48 AM)Someone1776 Wrote: Because society is headed toward the direction of saying the Church's teaching here is hateful and cannot be tolerared. Hate groups aren't given non-profit status, don't get the hospitals licensed, don't get their schools accredited, and generally people who publicly belong to hate groups have trouble making an income. The Church's other teachings can be dismissed by society as antiquarian, but the Church's stance on homosecuality could eventually lead the Church back into the catacombs.   

... and this:

(01-01-2013, 06:04 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: The Obama Administration argued before the Supreme Court that the government had the power to require the Catholic Church to ordain women. Not much of a jump for them to say they have the power to require the Church to perform gay marriage.

In other words: "We're from the government and we're here to help."
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#27
Quote: The Church appears to be seeking to pick a political standing ground, at least here in the UK, on the issue of homosexual marriage.

Must be a UK thing.  Also, what exactly are they doing?  Any excommunications?  Calls for Catholics to refuse to comply?  In the US, I don't see much of a fight.  Sodomite marriage will continue to spread, and the bishops will say a few things, and that is it.  The main "fight" is against obamacare, and again, it is minor.  Ignored by the commies who run our society.

If there is some coordination, then it must be from Pope B16.  That is a good sign, and maybe it was the hot item and the first thing he could engage to fight.  In the US, it isn't much of a fight, but maybe it is a good sign.
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#28
By making "gay marriage" the law of the land the Church could effectively be considered a hate group with the State doing all in its power to intimidate it right out of existence in the US. Once it becomes illegal to say anything against gays Catholic teaching itself becomes illegal and any priest that preaches against it or refuses to bless homosexuals in "matrimony" at a Church can be arrested, the Church lose it's tax status etc. The homosexual movement has been on the agenda of the radical left for decades, not because the left gives a hoot about gays but because the gay rights movement can be used as a weapon to bludgeon their enemies into silence, submission or non existence. 
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#29
The church is picking and choosing topics to fight when they should be announcing to the world that JESUS is the savior, he left the CATHOLIC CHURCH and SACRAMENTS as the ONLY WAY TO HEAVEN, what people do with that information, whether to search and see if it's true(people of good will) or ignore it. Just preach the Faith and let God's graces go to work, the hell if the world get's mad at the church.
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#30
(01-01-2013, 08:58 AM)ImpyTerwilliger Wrote:
(01-01-2013, 02:57 AM)ggreg Wrote: An optimist might rejoice that after 40 years the Bishops of Britain finally appear to have grown a pair.  But this is out of character and it makes me wonder why men who have been weaklings about Abortion, Divorce, couples living with each other before marriage, or with no intention to be married (which is very common here) appear to have drawn a line on this particular issue.  

Greg, I think you're right.  Although a good argument can be made that same sex marriage is a quantum level more grave than most of those issues (given its intrinsic disorder), the ignoring of those issues paved the way for acceptance of same sex marriage because it allowed that sex and marriage are about an individual's pleasure and psychological fulfillment.

You wonder whether there is a conspiracy, but I think the reason for focusing on this issue now (aside from the obvious fact that it is current due to political pressure), rather than the others, is much simpler:  $$.  The overwhelming majority of people are heterosexual and will be offended when those other issues are raised.  They have been known to walk out of Mass when they are addressed from the pulpit.  And their money goes with them.

Same-sex attracted people like myself are a small minority and make a safer target.  (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

That might be a factor I agree.  But why protest it at all?  Given how weak these Bishops have been over the last 40 years this would be a perfect thing to ignore.  All they would need to say would be that a Catholic cannot get married to a person of the same sex and leave it at that.

It feels like they are drawing a line in the sand with this issue and I am confused as to why they would.
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