Decline and Fall of the Catholic Church in America
#11
(01-07-2013, 10:58 PM)JoeVoxxPop Wrote: I am of the opinion that the sexrevolution...feminism...drug abuse..the destruction of education all sprung forth when the church at vat2 ceded the culture to the marxists......vat2 is the trunk of the evil tree....roots?

But feminism started many years earlier. The pill came in 1960, before the Council. The Council Fathers proposed contraception as a topic of discussion because Catholics were already contracepting in substantial numbers. Granted some bishops, like Cushing, I believe, said they thought it was permissible (before Humanae Vitae). What I don't understand is how the Council gets credited with being the root of these things if it says nothing about them, and even talks against them. A marvelous study of cause and effect there. Now if the air of reform allowed the smoke of Satan in, then that would be a necessary condition, not a cause. Perhaps there was a ceding as they say, but I've found in my research that there are "controls" in societies which did not liberalize like the US, and the Vatican II agenda did them well, with obvious conditions in their country supporting conservatism, like Poland and external threats (i.e., they were distracted). As with all human events beyond the simple cause and effect before our eyes, it is a complex situation with multiple feedback loops, and vicious cycles.
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#12
(01-07-2013, 10:58 PM)JoeVoxxPop Wrote: I am of the opinion that the sexrevolution...feminism...drug abuse..the destruction of education all sprung forth when the church at vat2 ceded the culture to the marxists......vat2 is the trunk of the evil tree....roots?
The Tree is not Evil, rather Its fruit is not for Man (or Woman, as it were).

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#13
Vatican II was not the cause of those changes in the society which had been brewing for years. Feminism had been coming since the Suffrage movement. It was twisted by commie operatives and Steinem, who was later exposed as a CIA agent provocateur. It came to boil because of "free sex". Young women were tired of being sex objects, or considered  prudes if they didn't give it up. The young men had VietNam and burning their Selective Service card, but they had zero. So they were whipped up to burn their bras as a protest against being sex objects, and twisto changeo, they were "educated" that the pill would emancipate them, making them able to pick and choose their partners. Then they really became sex objects. There is something demonic in a solution which liberates women by making them slaves, and they embrace it with their whole hearts. The thing necessary for contraception to really take off was a convenient pill. I worked in a Drug Store and it was not flying off the shelves before this. When Enovid-E was marketed in 64-65 it took off. Another consideration is many states still out lawed it until then. It was not pervasive until this, and the Vatican II had zip, point, shit to do with it. Remember Catholics were a minority then about 20 percent of Americans, and it was the Protestants that embraced it first. It was shoveled into the black neighborhoods by the racist liberals. No babies = more money = Moloch.

tim 
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#14
I didnt say it was the cause of these things ....I mean it was the council of surrender that punched holes in the dikes holding back all these forces from flooding the society. And I hold vat 2 was legit till hijacked...then it became an evil thing...blending truth with error and surrendering the churches societal protections to the world,,,,and the world of hell on earth gushed forth like katrina through the gulf.
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#15
Joe I'm not refuting what you say, I'm giving it a little more depth. When I was a kid the Sisters thought up this little exercise for us to write newspaper articles of Christ's Crucifixion, as if we were there. In a very odd way I'm completing that assignment fifty-five years later. I was a witness to this crap in real time, and like ABC News I'm giving an eyewitness report.

tim
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#16
Catholic influence on the world is spiritual...its not just about numbers and material demographic caculations. Vat 2 unleashed evil spirit on america and the world by reducing the grace and power of Catholic spiritual influence. In america Bishop Sheens show was top of the charts before the council and the nunnerys were full...the Sisters were decimated a mere decade after vat2 liberalised the catholic moral teachings. I know you lived it Tim....but Im expressing my opinion based on the timeline of events. The evil things you spoke of were not held back by a demographic of 20% american catholics...they were held back by the Protection of St Micheal...the council told st mike to take a powder so to speak and he did. IMO
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#17
Was there any benefit? Is the improved relations with non-Catholics a benefit at all? How has that spiritual influence fared? The Anglicans came to us. Many look to the Church as the pillar in this time, yet it is still the VII Church, according to some. If it is spiritually bereft, then why do the nations rail against her still?
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#18
I think this started with Pope Leo XIII's vision or hearing Lucifer speak to Christ, and Christ allowing him the power to try to take down his Church. Pope Leo XIII prayed on this to the BVM, and she came to Fatima with the answer. It's been a slow boil for a long time, but coincidentally with Vatican II many of the pots boiled over in the time very close to it. Vatican II and the third Secret coincide exactly with the instructions written on the front of both envelopes shown by Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone on RAI's Porta a Porta. They were to be revealed to the world in 1960. That never happened. It didn't fully happen in 2000 either.

Concerning the pill, Catholics didn't jump on the band wagon immediately. First it had to be legalized in forty states after it came to market. Then Catholics needed to be given a fig leaf in order to use it. Look at the birth rate then there wasn't an immediate fall off. Not to mention my generation needed to grow up and Doctors needed to become more liberal to prescribe it to 14 year olds which was still in the future and was a public debate in the mid to late 70's.

Here's a little something I heard from Matatics. When Moses went up the Mountain, the people complained to Aaron. God had made Aaron the Supreme Pontiff of the Israelites, like a Pope. Aaron fashioned a golden calf for them to worship, and God Almighty became angry. He punished the Israelites for it, but not Aaron, nor Moses. There is a lesson in there for all of us.

tim

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#19
the concilliar facade "church" is Gods winnowing fork....a test to see who is with him? Like the Golden Calf
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#20
(01-07-2013, 10:58 PM)JoeVoxxPop Wrote: I am of the opinion that the sexrevolution...feminism...drug abuse..the destruction of education all sprung forth when the church at vat2 ceded the culture to the marxists......vat2 is the trunk of the evil tree....roots?
I tend to agree.
As the Church goes, so goes the world.
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