Williamson to consecrate a bishop??
#41
(01-14-2013, 08:26 PM)OldMan Wrote:
(01-14-2013, 08:20 PM)salus Wrote: Why are people worried about Bishop williamson consecrating a Bishop, the Chinese Communists have been doing that for decades. Could it be because its a TRADITIONAL bishop?

I think you're on to something...

The Vatican has long expressed great opposition to consecrations performed by the Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association. In July of last year when the communists Consecrated a new bishop, Rome through a big fit about it. Also the entire hierarchy of  the communist church in China is out of communion with Rome, as opposed to +Williamson who had his excommunication lifted in 2009.

Interesting fact though, until relatively recently the Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association maintained the old mass, although that was because of not wanting to print new liturgical books rather than theological convictions.
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#42
(01-14-2013, 08:30 PM)DrBombay Wrote: The state run commie Church in China says the TLM.  The underground Rome-approved Church says the NO.

Ponder that one if you will, then ponder it some more.  Diabolical disorientation indeed.

I do not think that is accurate anymore. The CPCA began saying the Mass of Paul VI when they managed to get updated liturgical texts via Taiwan. In fact, it is known that the CPCA priests pray for Benedict XVI in the canon of the Mass which could not be verified when the traditional liturgy was used because the canon was silent.
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#43
(01-14-2013, 08:30 PM)DrBombay Wrote: The state run commie Church in China says the TLM.  The underground Rome-approved Church says the NO.

Ponder that one if you will, then ponder it some more.  Diabolical disorientation indeed.

See, this is the kind of info. which brings to mind a room where 1 Billion Chinese are playing ping pong on the same table with a half billion ping pong balls and I can't follow the games, making my head twitch in every direction possible. DK, I need a drink !

tim
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#44
(01-14-2013, 08:20 PM)salus Wrote: Why are people worried about Bishop williamson consecrating a Bishop, the Chinese Communists have been doing that for decades. Could it be because its a TRADITIONAL bishop?

as far as I know, Rome doles out the same penalties when it is done without their permission. See here:

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/head...ryid=14872
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#45
(01-14-2013, 08:38 PM)DoktorDespot Wrote:
(01-14-2013, 08:30 PM)DrBombay Wrote: The state run commie Church in China says the TLM.  The underground Rome-approved Church says the NO.

Ponder that one if you will, then ponder it some more.  Diabolical disorientation indeed.

I do not think that is accurate anymore. The CPCA began saying the Mass of Paul VI when they managed to get updated liturgical texts via Taiwan. In fact, it is known that the CPCA priests pray for Benedict XVI in the canon of the Mass which could not be verified when the traditional liturgy was used because the canon was silent.

Unfortunate.  Oriental efficiency combined with capitalist excess is bad mojo.  And Tradition suffers another blow, if one considers commies no longer saying the TLM to be a blow.  Of course, there were plenty of commies saying the TLM in America from the 30s onward, if Bella Abzug is to be believed.  Or was it Bella Dodd?  I'm too weary to google.
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#46
(01-14-2013, 08:40 PM)Tim Wrote:
(01-14-2013, 08:30 PM)DrBombay Wrote: The state run commie Church in China says the TLM.  The underground Rome-approved Church says the NO.

Ponder that one if you will, then ponder it some more.  Diabolical disorientation indeed.

See, this is the kind of info. which brings to mind a room where 1 Billion Chinese are playing ping pong on the same table with a half billion ping pong balls and I can't follow the games, making my head twitch in every direction possible. DK, I need a drink !

tim

They may have a billion Chinese, but all we need is one Forrest Gump to bring down the whole lot.  There's a thoughtful metaphor lurking in there somewhere. 
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#47
(01-14-2013, 08:30 PM)DrBombay Wrote: The state run commie Church in China says the TLM.  The underground Rome-approved Church says the NO.

Ponder that one if you will, then ponder it some more.  Diabolical disorientation indeed.
Here's a video, but it appears he's doing a concelebrated Novus (dis)Ordo, and I saw Communion-in-the-hand, too:


Do a video search for "中國天主教愛國會" ("Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association"), and you'll find more videos.

But, according to a quick Google translation of that video's description, it appears that bishop is seeking unity with Rome:
Quote:The official Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association meeting Saturday held the sacraments Shanghai coadjutor bishop Mada Qin, Tajima in his speech when suddenly announced that it would no longer serve as a member of the Catholic Patriotic Association, thanks to God first and Catholics support the Mada Qin assistant bishop in his speech, because The duties of elected assistant bishop of the Catholic Patriotic Association is not recognized by the Holy See, the part of the clergy refused to attend, Ma expressed: "insight into the people of God, people look at him, God, look at people's hearts. justice in the natural, man proposes, God disposes . "
Mada Qin subsequently elaborated own religious philosophy, then abruptly changed the subject, refers to own was the Vatican approved bishop appointed supplemented, body and mind should be on pastoral and evangelization, "So from this moment ordained today I no longer convenient as a member of the Patriotic Association! "
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