Papal frontrunners
#11
(02-14-2013, 11:46 PM)DrBombay Wrote: The new pope will be a man of the Council.  Although it is unlikely he will have attended it, his seminary formation will have been imbued with its spirit from start to finish.  As such, hoping for a full-on restoration of anything is simply whistling past the graveyard.

Ranjith and Burke are our best hopes and even they will merely continue the "relatively more traditional than JPII" path of his predecessor. I also think they both have a slightly better than zero chance of getting elected.

Sorry, I know y'all are hoping for a trad-Mass saying, Russia-consecrating, modernist-anathematizing, liberal smiting fire breather, but such a man is not currently in the College.  Maybe someday, when the Council is nothing but a quaint note in the history books....

You should keep in mind that conclaves don't always get what they expect.  In 1846 one of the most liberal cardinals in the Church was chosen to be Pope.  This cardinal had criticized the previous pontiff for being out of step with the times and his election was heralded by secular humanists around the world. The name he took as Pope was Pius IX. 
Reply
#12
(02-14-2013, 11:51 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(02-14-2013, 11:46 PM)DrBombay Wrote: The new pope will be a man of the Council.  Although it is unlikely he will have attended it, his seminary formation will have been imbued with its spirit from start to finish.  As such, hoping for a full-on restoration of anything is simply whistling past the graveyard.

Ranjith and Burke are our best hopes and even they will merely continue the "relatively more traditional than JPII" path of his predecessor. I also think they both have a slightly better than zero chance of getting elected.

Sorry, I know y'all are hoping for a trad-Mass saying, Russia-consecrating, modernist-anathematizing, liberal smiting fire breather, but such a man is not currently in the College.  Maybe someday, when the Council is nothing but a quaint note in the history books....

You should keep in mind that conclaves don't always get what they expect.  In 1846 one of the most liberal cardinals in the Church was chosen to be Pope.  This cardinal had criticized the previous pontiff for being out of step with the times and his election was heralded by secular humanists around the world. The name he took as Pope was Pius IX. 

I'm not saying we're going to get some liberal who will overturn dogma or some modernist wet dream.  I just don't see a man in the College who will do what most of us would like to see done.  But the Spirit blows where he will as they say and who knows how the office may change a man.
Reply
#13
This seems so basic...


Does the Holy Spirit choose the next pope through the conclave?  Or, is the next pope merely an elected official by a temporal ruling body of regional representatives?
Reply
#14
The obsession the some people have with a black or Asian Pope really annoys me.  I have no problem with whatever the color or ethnic background of the next Pope is, but I would think that anyone who takes their faith even half seriously would be more interested in having the best and most qualified man elected, rather then the man who ticks all the boxes on the PC checklist.

I would far prefer an elderly Italian cardinal who has worked in the curia all his career but who has the right qualifications for the job then some media friendly black Pope who provides some good photo ops but has no idea about running the Church.  Of course, having said that I must surely be a racist who needs to get with the times.

-Steve
Reply
#15
(02-15-2013, 05:11 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote: This seems so basic...


Does the Holy Spirit choose the next pope through the conclave?  Or, is the next pope merely an elected official by a temporal ruling body of regional representatives?

Maybe the meaning is... God sends His grace through the Holy Ghost, to every Cardinal who has a vote. That grace is the grace to do right, to vote for the orthodox defender of the faith.

The Cardinals' own free will (for the better or worse) is what votes. He co-operates with the grace given to him, or he doesn't.

I believe that's what they mean.
Reply
#16
(02-15-2013, 05:11 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote: This seems so basic...

Does the Holy Spirit choose the next pope through the conclave?  Or, is the next pope merely an elected official by a temporal ruling body of regional representatives?

No, it is not so basic.

It is not Catholic teaching that the Holy Spirit necessarily chooses the pope through the conclave.  Rather, the Holy Spirit helps the cardinals to make their decision if they are open to His inspirations and grace.  We can hope that this is what has happened in any given election.  However, it is not necessarily so, because the cardinals are human and need not cooperate with the Holy Spirit.  There is no guarantee whatsoever that they will.  They can indeed be motivated in their choice by human and even base considerations.  In that case, the pope has been elected through the permissive will of God.  In any case, Our Lord will guarantee that the pope chosen has the Petrine charism of infallibility and the grace of state.

There is a certain realism that we need to cultivate as mature Catholics.  Anything else can lead to loss of faith through scandal.
Reply
#17
(02-14-2013, 11:51 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: You should keep in mind that conclaves don't always get what they expect.  In 1846 one of the most liberal cardinals in the Church was chosen to be Pope.  This cardinal had criticized the previous pontiff for being out of step with the times and his election was heralded by secular humanists around the world. The name he took as Pope was Pius IX. 

Cardinal Ratzinger wasn't exactly the front runner in 2005, either. Surprises seem to be the rule instead of the exception when Popes are elected.  Wasn't John XXIII supposed to be a "caretaker?"  Then came Vatican II. 

So, question is will this be a good surprise or not so good?
Reply
#18
(02-15-2013, 10:33 AM)Joamy Wrote:
(02-14-2013, 11:51 PM)Someone1776 Wrote: You should keep in mind that conclaves don't always get what they expect.  In 1846 one of the most liberal cardinals in the Church was chosen to be Pope.  This cardinal had criticized the previous pontiff for being out of step with the times and his election was heralded by secular humanists around the world. The name he took as Pope was Pius IX. 

Cardinal Ratzinger wasn't exactly the front runner in 2005, either. Surprises seem to be the rule instead of the exception when Popes are elected.  Wasn't John XXIII supposed to be a "caretaker?"  Then came Vatican II.   

So, question is will this be a good surprise or not so good?

Who knows? Realistically, all bets are off once they go into conclave.
Reply
#19
Don't worry, people, Ss. Peter and Paul will come down and shine a light on the cardinal who is to be elected. Let us just pray for the next pope.
Reply
#20
(02-15-2013, 06:45 PM)GodFirst Wrote: Don't worry, people, Ss. Peter and Paul will come down and shine a light on the cardinal who is to be elected. Let us just pray for the next pope.

Wouldn't that be nice?

I hope they bring fresh batteries in their light.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)