JFK, abortion, and the usual suspects
#31
(02-16-2013, 02:46 PM)Burdensome1 Wrote: The Kennedys have had a much more direct effect on your Catholic life than JPII ever did IMO. 

[Image: picard-facepalm-hotlink.jpg]
Reply
#32
JPII promulgated no missal and called no council.

If you want to refute me, try actually refuting me instead of posting a facepalm, junior.

BTW, I find your post to be an excellent example of my point.  Everyone in this world assumes that JPII is evil, but look at the flak I'm getting for talking about the Kenedys!  Ho ho.  What a happy time we live in, when Irish adulterers and baby-killers and excommunicati get more respect than a Pope.  Woo hoo!  Awesome. 
Reply
#33
Anamchara,

Abortion is, as the killing of an innocent, an intrinsic evil.  You will find no saint arguing for license on this matter.  To act as if Augustine and Aquinas would have done so is not reasonable.  Therefore, I'll ignore that part of your response.

Have fun researching Americanism.  It has been called the "phantom heresy" because of the poor delination of it aspects by the Church.  Like many things, people who discuss it tend to talk about its effects rather than its elements, and point to JFK's refusal to govern as a Catholic as an example of Americanism applied.  However, I was forced by Bombay to abandon my objection to the '60 speech on the grounds that it was Americanist because he wants a papal definition from the relevant encyclical to Cdl. Gibbon.  I can't do that.  So instead I'll just rest on the Syllabus of Pio Nono, which is much clearer. 

Reply
#34
(02-15-2013, 02:01 PM)Burdensome1 Wrote: I found this blog entry fascinating

http://www.thecatholicthing.org/columns/...hurch.html

in part:

Quote: Publicly, the Kennedys patronized the Church, but privately they helped create a shadow church of religious laymen and clergy who helped them rationalize their own version of Catholicism.

The Catholic pro-abortion movement, for instance, was hatched at the Kennedy compound in Hyannis Port. In the summer of 1964, Bobby and Ted Kennedy met at the Cape with some leading dissident priests – Robert Drinan, Richard McCormick, Joseph Fuchs, and Charles Curran – to figure out how Catholic politicians could pander to the growing abortion movement without upsetting their Catholic constituencies.

According to one witness, the theologians “concurred on certain basics. . .that a Catholic politician could in good conscience vote in favor of abortion.” The action plan developed that week in Hyannis Port, in sociologist Anne Hendershott’s judgment, contributed to effectively neutralizing the Catholic laity and “helped build the foundation for the [Democratic] party’s reincarnation as the party of abortion.”

I went ahead and ordered the biography of Joe Kennedy being advertised in the story, should be a good read.

I have one priest friend who mentions often how glad he is that JFK "went to confession in Dallas the night before he was shot" but I own the Mansfield "Death of a President" which is basically a minute-by-minute chronology of JFK's last hours which mentions nothing about it. 

It seems in retrospect that the only real opportunity to keep Catholic politicians in the USA in the Church was lost when the Church failed to excommunicate JFK during the campaign. 

Thoughts?

The article is about his father Joe not the son John. It was written by an organ of the neo-con movement. This magazine was started by Fr. J. Neuhaus RIP, and an advocate of neo-conservatism, and an enemy of the Democrats. I just breezed through the article so I wouldn't be too polluted by these folks and I didn't see the speech by John Kennedy. It chronicled the life of Joe their father, and then added the abortion appendage.  My question is how is that part of the OP in which you accuse John of leading all the Kennedy politcians to conspire to bring abortion to the forefront as the premier issue of the Democratic Party, though John was dead before those priests were at Hyannis Port ?

tim
Reply
#35
See above.  I wrote it out for you. 

You really don't like political conservatives at all, huh?  It all starts to make sense.

To Quote Terence Mann in "Field of Dreams" : "You're from the 60's, aren't you?  Go on back, there's no place for you here!".

Reply
#36
(02-16-2013, 03:11 PM)Burdensome1 Wrote: See above.  I wrote it out for you. 

You really don't like political conservatives at all, huh?  It all starts to make sense.

To Quote Terence Mann in "Field of Dreams" : "You're from the 60's, aren't you?  Go on back, there's no place for you here!".


Son, Im going to call you out having been Conservative from the beginning 65 years ago. Neo-Cons are Trotskyites Zionists that have conned the South and the Evangelicals, and many Roman Catholics. That ain't Conservatism.

oops forgot to sign and I don't want to appear a coward

tim
Reply
#37
(02-15-2013, 07:53 PM)Burdensome1 Wrote:
Quote:Dead mean aren't responsible for things that happen after they're dead.

More Camelot romance.  This is the guy who articulated the intellectual position used by pro-abort Catholic politicians, now. 

[b]This post  has nothing to do with the Kennedys......whether you like them or not, whether I like them or not. I will only say that the fascination with this family is
not a Catholic thing. It seems to me to be an American thing. Two, what Church do you belong to, if any? I ask this only because you are so rude that it makes me wonder how Christlike it is for someone like you to condemn ANOTHER person or family. Quite hypocritical in my mind.
[/b]
Reply
#38
FE = CAF

Disagree with the group about John Kennedy and have your faith questioned.  Perfect.  You people act just like your hated NeoCon counterparts.

You can troll my posts and read about the masses I go to, but whatever one's liturgical opinions, venting more bile at any Pope than at faithless Catholic politicians who undermine the Church at every opportunity for their own gain and pleasure AIN'T Catholic.



Reply
#39
Quote:Son, Im going to call you out having been Conservative from the beginning 65 years ago. Neo-Cons are Trotskyites Zionists that have conned the South and the Evangelicals, and many Roman Catholics. That ain't Conservatism.

What have you proved?  That political terms can be redefined to make someone feel better about their prejudices. 

Trotskyite Zionists.  I have to admit, that is really, really good.  Well, the Trotskyite Zionists are closer to Church teachings these days than the Sexual Libertines.  I vote, and I can't vote for the sexual libertines, which include the Kennedys.  You?
Reply
#40
Burden.
You started about JFK starting the abortion thing with those theologians at Hyannis Port.
I showed you he was dead then and nowhere does it say he was there.

Point one for me

You throw in the speech he gave to the Southern ministers as some coroboration that he was behind it, though dead. This was not covered in the article.
Someone shows you what you thought was a heresy is not. And shows the source

Point two Someone.

If you wanted to talk about Joe Kennedy's checkered past then okay, as that is the thrust of the article you posted. If you wanted to discuss how those priests and theologians led the Kennedys to support abortion then okay. But it stretches credulity to think Ted the dimmest Kennedy wrangled all those learned and heretical priests and theologians to come up with a grand plan to introduce abortion then that's way too much conspiracy for me.

tim

All the rest is your anger with me, and I don't care. 

Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)