Consecrate Russia!
#11
(02-15-2013, 10:49 PM)quo warranto Wrote:
(02-15-2013, 10:41 PM)DrBombay Wrote: Since Russia has already been consecrated, I doubt seriously any Pope will repeat it.  It's called tempting God.  Look what happened to Moses in a similar circumstance.
Did I miss something? When did the Holy Father do that? You're not talking about the world consecration are you?It looks to me like God wants things done a little more specifically.

Doc drank the koolaid, unfortunately. The Holy Father specifically did not consecrate Russia in '84. In fact, the words “Enlighten especially the peoples of which you yourself are awaiting our consecration and confiding,”  were an ad lib from the published text that was read at the Mass I attended. Our Holy Father obviously intended to remove even the suspicion that he had consecrated Russia in obedience to our Lady's command. However, certain people (e.g. the Blue Army and Doc Bombay) decided that despite logic and the Holy Father's clear statement, Russia had been consecrated.

I often wonder, when Doc brings this up, why Russia wasn't consecrated when Pope Pius XII consecrated the world to the Immaculate Heart and why John Paul II had to do it again. :)
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#12
(02-16-2013, 01:00 AM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(02-15-2013, 10:49 PM)quo warranto Wrote:
(02-15-2013, 10:41 PM)DrBombay Wrote: Since Russia has already been consecrated, I doubt seriously any Pope will repeat it.  It's called tempting God.  Look what happened to Moses in a similar circumstance.
Did I miss something? When did the Holy Father do that? You're not talking about the world consecration are you?It looks to me like God wants things done a little more specifically.

Doc drank the koolaid, unfortunately. The Holy Father specifically did not consecrate Russia in '84. In fact, the words “Enlighten especially the peoples of which you yourself are awaiting our consecration and confiding,”  were an ad lib from the published text that was read at the Mass I attended. Our Holy Father obviously intended to remove even the suspicion that he had consecrated Russia in obedience to our Lady's command. However, certain people (e.g. the Blue Army and Doc Bombay) decided that despite logic and the Holy Father's clear statement, Russia had been consecrated.

I often wonder, when Doc brings this up, why Russia wasn't consecrated when Pope Pius XII consecrated the world to the Immaculate Heart and why John Paul II had to do it again. :)

Pius XII did not do the consecration in union with the world's bishops. JPII did.

Secondly, Sr. Lucia herself said the consecration is done.

Of course, EWTN is a Network Gone Wrong so I guess we can't really trust them. Meh.
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#13
(02-16-2013, 12:39 AM)DrBombay Wrote: http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/fatima1984.htm

Sister Lucia Wrote:I come to answer your question, "If the consecration made by Pope John Paul II on March 25, 1984 in union with all the bishops of the world, accomplished the conditions for the consecration of Russia according to the request of Our Lady in Tuy on June 13 of 1929?" Yes, it was accomplished, and since then I have said that it was made.

Check, mate.  Just keepin it real.   :tiphat:

I hope you are enjoying the period of peace that Our Lady of Fatima promised the world after a proper Consecration of Russia DrBombay.  You shouldn't mix koolaid with catnip.

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#14
(02-16-2013, 01:03 AM)DrBombay Wrote: Pius XII did not do the consecration in union with the world's bishops. JPII did.

His Holiness JP II did not, as far as I can recall, ask or order the Bishops of the world to join him in the consecration. He asked that it be read from all pulpits on the Sunday indicated. Do you have any sources that indicate that he was joined in it by all (or even a majority) of the world's Bishops? And you still haven't addressed the ad lib which makes it crystal clear the he, at least, knew he was not fulfilling Our Lady's request at Fatima. I sure hope that koolaid tasted good! :)
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#15
I can smell a new debate looming in the not too far distance (right now?) on did she or didn't she (Sister Lucia) say so?  Our Lady ask specifically to consecrate Russia, and she called the country by [i]name[/i].  Russia is in the "world" and so are many other communist countries (China, No. Korea) that are instrumental in the annihilation of many nations (Yugoslavia, e.g., doesn't exist anymore).

I hope this pope before he steps down and retires, his last act would be the real consecration of Russia.  He knows Russia hasn't been consecrated and his true legacy would be that he was the instrument that brought about the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  What does he have to lose?  If he does, will the bishops obey him?  I believe many won't because they have fallen for the canard that Russia is already consecrated (can't they see that Russia is reverting to being communist again). 

If he doesn't....? 

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#16
The Holy Father has worked to improve relations between the Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox.  Perhaps, as a sign of good will and friendship, when he's saying his final goodbyes, he'll consecrate Russia to her Immaculate Heart?

Ecumenism could be the vehicle that allows the consecration without severe political ramifications. :P
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#17
Let's speculate !  What if Doc is right and even though missing the specific reference  to Russia, the Almighty in his mercy has accepted but, we will not give us the period of peace, and due to our pride will have to fix the mess we are in without any special graces. This isn't just the Pope and Bishops that have failed. Disregarding the descriptive modifiers, how many Catholics are saying their rosaries, offering samll sacrafices, or five first Saturdays. This doesn't take into consideration the number which do not got to Mass or the gajillions that receive using the pill.

I don't believe this for a new york minute, but maybe we should explore it as a possibility, to look from another angle. If Russa's promised conversion was to democratic secular government, Putin seems to be their saint. Russia has a backbone which the jellyfish n the EU, and the tadpoles in the US do not have. Perhaps the BiBi Netanyahoo cum neo-con plan to bring democracy to the middle east and north africa has been allowed to blow up because we are in control, and the Lord is at arm's length. Since most depressions in the 30's and the late 1800's were solved by the banksters demanding a world war for commerce, is it next ?

tim
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#18
Scary thoughts Tim, but I think you are right on the money. Besides the consecration obviously didn't happen in a timely fashion so Russia's errors have already spread. We need a real conversion of hearts throughout the world at this point. I'm still praying the Holy father does the right thing and consecrates Russia as Our Lady asked. Even if it is to little to late.
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#19
(02-15-2013, 10:41 PM)DrBombay Wrote: Since Russia has already been consecrated, I doubt seriously any Pope will repeat it.  It's called tempting God.  Look what happened to Moses in a similar circumstance.




"Get thee behind us Satan"......
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#20
I'm probably alone in being a bit disappointed that some people feel they have to resort to suggestions of Dr. Bombay having 'drunk the kool aid' but I must say I find that insulting.  I know you guys are all tough he-men, and I'm just a pest-feeding Canadian, but it disappoints me because its unnecessary.

Let's get back to the necessary insults, boys.
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