Exclusive: A Seat for the Pope at King David's Tomb
#1
http://legalpronews.findlaw.com/article/00lm2zL7Gv3Ar
Exclusive: A Seat for the Pope at King David's Tomb


Has anyone here heard about this? Fascinating that the Isrialies are giving the upper room to the Catholics!
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#2
Fascinating in deed.  I wonder why now.  The full article is interesting.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articl...R_VsfJZ02A
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#3
Ahem.

Forum Rulez Wrote:Don't just post URLs with no summaries, no effort at explaining what the URLs link to. Preferred is the posting of entire articles (or, if they're extremely long, their relevant parts) -- and especially preferred is the posting of articles accompanied by some of your own commentary. It makes things much more interesting and stimulates responses! And please cite sources!

Read the rules!
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#4
I find it interesting that this journalist, clearly bias towards Isrial and against the vatican. Has labeled the story "a seat for the pope". My husband thinks seat in this context means the center of government.

[Image: 03551eat.gif]
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#5
Right you are DrBombay.  My only comment so far is "I wonder why now?".

Source - http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articl...R_YQvJZ02A

Quote:Op-Ed: Exclusive: A Seat for the Pope at King David's Tomb
February 01, 2013
Israel seems to have sold Jerusalem to the Vatican.

An historic agreement has been drafted between Israel and the Vatican. The Israeli authorities have granted the Pope an official seat in the room where the Last Supper is believed to have taken place, on Mount Zion in Jerusalem, and where David and Solomon, Jewish kings of Judea, are considered by some researchers, to also be buried.


It is the culmination of a long campaign by the Catholic Church to regain religious stewardship over the place where Jesus is supposed to have broken bread and drunk wine with his disciples on the eve of his crucifixion.

This is an enormous issue pushed through without any public debate.


According to our sources, the agreement, which is expected to be ratified next June, gives the Pope a “special authority” over the second floor of the building, so that Christian pilgrims will be able to celebrate religious functions like Pope John Paul did in 2000.

The agreement constitutes Israel’s capitulation to the Vatican’s efforts to “Christianize” the holy site, like when a Catholic convent was built in Auschwitz.


The Catholic Church has long wanted control over part of the area on Mt. Zion so as to turn it into an international religious center for Catholics. The blueprint of the agreement reads as follows: “The Vatican hands over this use of the Cenacle to the Custody of the Holy Land which will keep the Cenacle open from 6 AM to 8 AM for the celebration of the Holy Mass”.


In the long term, the gesture will increase tensions between Jews and the large assets of the Vatican. The Church has long been working to reduce Jewish rights in Jerusalem and in the Old City. Now, after the Muslim Waqf authority expelled the Christians from the Temple Mount and turned it into a mosque, it’s the turn of the Vatican to lay its hands on the Jewish Jerusalem.


The Custody of the Holy Land, the Franciscan order who, with Vatican approval, is in charge of the holy sites, campaigns with the Arabs against Israel.

As far back as May 2000, Yasser Arafat met Islamic and Christian clergymen at the presidential offices in Ramallah to back Palestinian Arab sovereignty over Jerusalem. Among the clergymen who attended the meeting, Diodoros I, patriarch of the Greek Orthodox Church, Torkom II, patriarch of the Armenian Orthodox Church, Catholic Patriarch Michel Sabbah and officials from the Custody of the Holy Land.


"An official meeting took place in Ramallah, Palestine, at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the State of Palestine". This is the official note of the Vatican press office about the meeting between the Catholic officials and the PLO representatives which took place this week.


The Vatican is also asking that Israel hand over to the Vatican’s control dozens of sites, 19 in Judea and Samaria and 28 in Jerusalem. The Catholic Church want to discuss some properties on Mount of Olives, Har Hazeitim, which is the very history of the Jewish people. If you want to keep Jerusalem united, you have to keep Har Hazeitim. The Vatican knows that.


In 1989 charges were made by the Catholic authorities that Israel desecrated the Cenacle on Mount Zion. The charges, which appeared in the Italian bishops’ newspaper Avvenire, said that the Israelis put a memorial plaque on the roof of the Cenacle. The plaque was put in place after the 1948 War of Independence in memory of soldiers who fell in the Old City and whose burial place was unknown. Every year, the bereaved families cleaned the plaque.


Why did the Catholic authorities complain? Last year a similar charge was made from the Catholic authorities that Israel wants to “Judaize” Mount Zion.


Should the Vatican gain sovereignty over Mount of Zion, millions of Christian pilgrims will flock to the site, and this will threaten the Israeli presence in the Old City’s Jewish Quarter and Jewish access to the Western Wall.

The Vatican wants the Jews out of the Old City and apparently Israel’s government is agreeing with them. Turning the Cenacle into an active church is also a way of desecrating the holiness of the site known as the Tomb of David.


The Vatican and the Palestinian Liberation Organisation expressed a common position in the Basic Agreement of 15 February 2000, intended to support the recognition of a special statute for the City of Jerusalem. In the memorandum, signed by Vatican officials and the PLO, an organization dedicated to the mass deportation of Israel’s Jews, the Catholic Church wants Israel relinquishing sovereignty at the Western Wall and the Temple Mount. The Vatican-PLO agreement’s preamble on Jerusalem shows that the Vatican's attitude on Israel's capital is still stuck in the unforgivable anti-Semitic rhetoric of the 1940s.


Until 1948, Christian access to the Cenacle was severely limited, because it was used as a mosque. Since then, the State of Israel is committed to protecting the holy places of all religions, and guaranteeing the right of worship for all faiths.

But no Israeli government must tolerate any policy of division, “shared control” or “internationalization” that opens the door to a return to the Arab apartheid of Jordanian occupation between 1948 and 1967.

Jerusalem is not for sale. For thousands of years, the Cenacle area was almost always totally closed off to Jews.


Sovereignty over Mount Zion is politics, not only religion. The day after the Pope celebrated a mass on Mt. Zion in 2000, he went to Yasser Arafat headquarter to support the Palestinians’ right to return.

A few months later, the Oslo war began. And Jews were sacrified again on the altar of “peace”. It was their last supper.


This week, the Vatican in its official documents began referring to the "State of Palestine".

(For a site on Christian attempts to gain leverage in Israel, click here)
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#6
Sounds more scary than anything to me. Lots of creepy prophecies about Israel and the seat of the Antichrist. 'd stay away from that seat . . .

Notice at the very end of the article how it says the Vatican has been referring to The State of Palestine? I find that VERY interesting.
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#7
(02-16-2013, 03:28 PM)mikemac Wrote: Right you are DrBombay.  My only comment so far is "I wonder why now?".

Source - http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articl...R_YQvJZ02A

Quote:Op-Ed: Exclusive: A Seat for the Pope at King David's Tomb
February 01, 2013
Israel seems to have sold Jerusalem to the Vatican.

An historic agreement has been drafted between Israel and the Vatican. The Israeli authorities have granted the Pope an official seat in the room where the Last Supper is believed to have taken place, on Mount Zion in Jerusalem, and where David and Solomon, Jewish kings of Judea, are considered by some researchers, to also be buried.


It is the culmination of a long campaign by the Catholic Church to regain religious stewardship over the place where Jesus is supposed to have broken bread and drunk wine with his disciples on the eve of his crucifixion.

This is an enormous issue pushed through without any public debate.


According to our sources, the agreement, which is expected to be ratified next June, gives the Pope a “special authority” over the second floor of the building, so that Christian pilgrims will be able to celebrate religious functions like Pope John Paul did in 2000.

The agreement constitutes Israel’s capitulation to the Vatican’s efforts to “Christianize” the holy site, like when a Catholic convent was built in Auschwitz.


The Catholic Church has long wanted control over part of the area on Mt. Zion so as to turn it into an international religious center for Catholics. The blueprint of the agreement reads as follows: “The Vatican hands over this use of the Cenacle to the Custody of the Holy Land which will keep the Cenacle open from 6 AM to 8 AM for the celebration of the Holy Mass”.


In the long term, the gesture will increase tensions between Jews and the large assets of the Vatican. The Church has long been working to reduce Jewish rights in Jerusalem and in the Old City. Now, after the Muslim Waqf authority expelled the Christians from the Temple Mount and turned it into a mosque, it’s the turn of the Vatican to lay its hands on the Jewish Jerusalem.


The Custody of the Holy Land, the Franciscan order who, with Vatican approval, is in charge of the holy sites, campaigns with the Arabs against Israel.

As far back as May 2000, Yasser Arafat met Islamic and Christian clergymen at the presidential offices in Ramallah to back Palestinian Arab sovereignty over Jerusalem. Among the clergymen who attended the meeting, Diodoros I, patriarch of the Greek Orthodox Church, Torkom II, patriarch of the Armenian Orthodox Church, Catholic Patriarch Michel Sabbah and officials from the Custody of the Holy Land.


"An official meeting took place in Ramallah, Palestine, at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the State of Palestine". This is the official note of the Vatican press office about the meeting between the Catholic officials and the PLO representatives which took place this week.


The Vatican is also asking that Israel hand over to the Vatican’s control dozens of sites, 19 in Judea and Samaria and 28 in Jerusalem. The Catholic Church want to discuss some properties on Mount of Olives, Har Hazeitim, which is the very history of the Jewish people. If you want to keep Jerusalem united, you have to keep Har Hazeitim. The Vatican knows that.


In 1989 charges were made by the Catholic authorities that Israel desecrated the Cenacle on Mount Zion. The charges, which appeared in the Italian bishops’ newspaper Avvenire, said that the Israelis put a memorial plaque on the roof of the Cenacle. The plaque was put in place after the 1948 War of Independence in memory of soldiers who fell in the Old City and whose burial place was unknown. Every year, the bereaved families cleaned the plaque.


Why did the Catholic authorities complain? Last year a similar charge was made from the Catholic authorities that Israel wants to “Judaize” Mount Zion.


Should the Vatican gain sovereignty over Mount of Zion, millions of Christian pilgrims will flock to the site, and this will threaten the Israeli presence in the Old City’s Jewish Quarter and Jewish access to the Western Wall.

The Vatican wants the Jews out of the Old City and apparently Israel’s government is agreeing with them. Turning the Cenacle into an active church is also a way of desecrating the holiness of the site known as the Tomb of David.


The Vatican and the Palestinian Liberation Organisation expressed a common position in the Basic Agreement of 15 February 2000, intended to support the recognition of a special statute for the City of Jerusalem. In the memorandum, signed by Vatican officials and the PLO, an organization dedicated to the mass deportation of Israel’s Jews, the Catholic Church wants Israel relinquishing sovereignty at the Western Wall and the Temple Mount. The Vatican-PLO agreement’s preamble on Jerusalem shows that the Vatican's attitude on Israel's capital is still stuck in the unforgivable anti-Semitic rhetoric of the 1940s.


Until 1948, Christian access to the Cenacle was severely limited, because it was used as a mosque. Since then, the State of Israel is committed to protecting the holy places of all religions, and guaranteeing the right of worship for all faiths.

But no Israeli government must tolerate any policy of division, “shared control” or “internationalization” that opens the door to a return to the Arab apartheid of Jordanian occupation between 1948 and 1967.

Jerusalem is not for sale. For thousands of years, the Cenacle area was almost always totally closed off to Jews.


Sovereignty over Mount Zion is politics, not only religion. The day after the Pope celebrated a mass on Mt. Zion in 2000, he went to Yasser Arafat headquarter to support the Palestinians’ right to return.

A few months later, the Oslo war began. And Jews were sacrified again on the altar of “peace”. It was their last supper.


This week, the Vatican in its official documents began referring to the "State of Palestine".

(For a site on Christian attempts to gain leverage in Israel, click here)

Thanks.
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#8
(02-16-2013, 04:03 PM)maldon Wrote: Sounds more scary than anything to me. Lots of creepy prophecies about Israel and the seat of the Antichrist. 'd stay away from that seat . . .

Notice at the very end of the article how it says the Vatican has been referring to The State of Palestine? I find that VERY interesting.

Yeah something doesn't add up, does it.  I'm suspicious.  It's nice to see the Vatican referring to the State of Palestine.  Well the Vatican didn't recognize the state of Israel until into the 1990s.
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#9
This showed up in my newsfeed February 13th.

http://jewishisrael.ning.com/profiles/bl...king-david
Article:
Outgoing Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon is leaving his mark on Jerusalem. After years of negotiations with the Vatican over property and tax issues, it seems that an historic breakthrough is near.  Headlines in the Jerusalem Post announced, "Jerusalem is on verge of signing agreement to formalize diplomatic relations with the Holy See".

However, there are conflicting and disturbing reports regarding the status of the "Last Supper Room" (also referred to as the "Upper Room", "Cenacle Shrine" or "Coenaculum"), which sits above the traditional Tomb of King David and is a central part of  the Diaspora Yeshiva grounds on Mt. Zion. For many years the Catholic church has been vying for ownership of the room which is considered by many Christians to be the traditional site of the location of the last supper. The room itself is a 12th century Crusader structure, built on top of the traditional Tomb of King David.

Whereas The Jerusalem Post claims that the two sides have "essentially decided to agree to disagree on the matter", Israel Hayom is reporting that the agreement will grant the Pope "an official seat" in the Upper Room, as well as giving the Vatican "a special modicum of control over the site".  Algemeiner reports that Israel "did not give up sovereignty", but "will allow the Vatican control over the site".

The Israeli Foreign Ministry makes no mention of Mt. Zion in their report of January 29th.

Jewishisrael contacted the Diaspora Yeshiva on Mt. Zion for their reaction to the incoming news reports. The Tomb of King David and the room of the purported last supper are on Yeshiva grounds. For decades, the Diaspora Yeshiva has never interfered with the considerable Christian tourism to the "Upper Room" and has even taken steps to renovate the area.

Rabbi Yisroel Goldstein, son of the Diaspora Yeshiva's founder, who teaches at the institution as well as serves as the rabbi of the community of Metzad in Gush Etzion, reacted with shock to the possible compromising of the area. He told JewishIsrael that these reports infer "a change in the status quo and will disrupt the Yeshiva environment". He said that "church chanting and services would disturb the Jews who come from all over Israel and the world to pray and recite psalms at the tomb of King David –which is directly below the Upper Room".

Rabbi Goldstein noted that the Diaspora Yeshiva directors have never been consulted or included in the negotiations nor have they been kept abreast of developments by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

We contacted Rick Halpern, director of the Mt. Zion Redevelopment Project, who has been instrumental in developing and renovating the Diaspora Yeshiva grounds and the area in and around the Tomb of King David. The following is his response to the incoming reports:

"Having worked with the Diaspora Yeshiva to restore several of their buildings on Mt. Zion, I am very disturbed to hear this, though I am not surprised.  One of the outstanding features of Mt. Zion is the peacefulness of its setting.  Though the Yeshiva maintains a dominant presence, other groups from other denominations are also there, and all have coexisted respectfully.  The Vatican has aggressively sought the Last Supper Room and other sites in Israel for years, using whatever means they have to get them.  Though the Last Supper room has been a non-denominational tourist destination for Christians of all sects, this latest move is an affront to that as well.  In the real estate business, location-location-location is the key.  The Vatican has their whole infrastructure in Rome, while Jerusalem is where the "action" is.  This strategic move by the Vatican will be used to openly promote their agenda, regardless of the placid Jewish environment & the non-denominational Christian atmosphere that surrounds David's Tomb."

JewishIsrael has repeatedly expressed concern over any negotiations which would compromise Mount Zion. We have been especially concerned over Daniel Ayalon's position as chief negotiator on Vatican issues, since he is a maverick when it comes to ventures to grant Christians special status in Israel.  Both Daniel Ayalon and his wife, Anne, are intimately involved with the Evangelical and Catholic communities and have comfortably appeared on missionary television . Anne has significant business and real estate dealings with the Christian community and was listed as a "Talking Head" for the Pope's Visit on Christian-Israeli Relations” in a pamphlet put out by The Israel Project (T.I.P.) at the time of Pope Benedict XVI’s visit in May 2009.

In November 2005, this writer reacted to reports of an apparent swap deal between Israel and the Vatican which would grant the Vatican control of the Upper Room. I was in correspondence with David Chappell, then deputy managing editor of the Times of London, who confirmed my concerns of a draft agreement.  At the time, a number of activists formed the Committee to Save Mt. Zion and effective pressure was exerted on the Israeli government to abandon the plans to relinquish control of the Upper Room.

Jewishisrael will continue to seek clarification on this matter and we encourage our readership to contact Daniel Ayalon and write to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs :
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