Thinking about changeing Religion ? Trad to Orthodox ( I need Advice.... im 25 )
#31
(03-14-2013, 09:45 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: Why would you voluntarily go from the One, True Church, founded by our Lord Jesus Christ, which subsists only in the One, Holy, Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic Church to a 'Church' which is heretical, schismatic and allows all sorts of sin? I converted the other way, for which I will give eternal thanks to our Lord and His Blessed Mother!

Last time I checked the capitol of the Roman empire was moved to Constantinople because of the Pagan influence and the fact that it was going to fall. Hence the ROMAN empire subsisted in those lands that for some reason are called the "Byzantine Empire" here in the west... Funny. Historically those lands would have been referred to as THE ROMAN EMPIRE BECAUSE THAT WAS THE ROMAN EMPIRE, not the lands of the Frankish Barbarians, Visigoths, and the like. In other words illiterate barbarians. Rome ceased being the Roman empire when those listed above conquered it.  So the actual Roman (Orthodox) Catholic Church is the Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church. Why do you think places like Serbia, Mt. Athos, and Russia have a Double headed eagle in their coat of arms? Thats the Crest of the Roman Empire.  And what heresies are you talking about pray tell? What innovations? The Frankish Church is the one who keeps coming up with new crap all the day long. Change this, change that, lets have some charismatics and make up a new mass by free masons. Change the Paschilion, make up infalibility when Popes have been anathematized AT ECUMENICAL  COUNCILS when directly asked for their input about critical issues (voted in because they were being starved and shelled and forced to stay until a positive vote could come in) , adding in the Filioque because Charlemagne thought the Easterners "removed it" from the original creed(using it then as a point of contention to be separated from the rightful ruler of where he sat i.e. the Roman Emperor in Constantinople), etc... etc...  The Eastern church hasnt changed. How can they be heretical? You changed. Youve made saints of the past, heretics by your continuously changing dogmas.  "St Benedict, do you believe in papal infallibility and purgatory..?" "Why no sir I have not heard of such non sense...." "Oh, non sense you say?oh well away with you heretic!" "St Gregory the Great, you have spoken heresy when you have stated 'Any one who calls himself the universal bishop is the anti-Christ'. Away with you heretic!"  So when they Anathematized Honorius did he veto their vote and say " I am the Pope!" And then after that did they kiss his red shoe and beg for forgiveness?  No because although he had erred he repented because he was Orthodox in his heart if not in mind and had no stupid notions of his (not the Church's) "infallibility".  Well you can follow the popes into kissing the koran, or changing the paschillion which was done at the very first Ecumenical Council, or changing the mass into a free for all, or cutting the divine office into something akin to the Anglican office, or making the "fast" into a joke, or.... whatever... Maybe you were in an Antiochian Parish. If then I sympathize because they are very modernist and so are some of  the Greeks but that is because of poorly trained or apathetic clergy or what not. Thats not a fault of the doctrine of the Church itself. The discrepancies are nothing like that between a NO church and Trad Church. It be more like a Trad Church with a priest who'd rather be a NO priest and Laity who are kind of lackadaisical. The Church of the Fathers is to be found in the Eastern Church.  I trully wish it were not exclusively the case but that is my deduction. A True Celtic Orthodox Catholic Church would be a great thing in Communion with the Orthodox pope of Rome. America would still be a cluster however....  :LOL:
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#32
(03-14-2013, 11:44 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: I'm a convert from the East. Don't be your normal arrogant Eastern arsehole, eh?

Yeah, that's exactly my point.  You were Orthodox and became convinced the Catholic Church was the church Christ founded.  There are former Catholics who became convinced the Orthodox Church is Christ's Church.  You both came to different conclusions, but it was under the same pretenses.  So why are you snidely asking why anyone would voluntarily convert to another church because they became convinced they should when you did exactly the same thing yourself?
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#33
(03-15-2013, 01:55 AM)Melkite Wrote:
(03-14-2013, 11:44 PM)jovan66102 Wrote: I'm a convert from the East. Don't be your normal arrogant Eastern arsehole, eh?

Yeah, that's exactly my point.  You were Orthodox and became convinced the Catholic Church was the church Christ founded.  There are former Catholics who became convinced the Orthodox Church is Christ's Church.  You both came to different conclusions, but it was under the same pretenses.  So why are you snidely asking why anyone would voluntarily convert to another church because they became convinced they should when you did exactly the same thing yourself?

Textbook tu quoque.
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#34
(03-15-2013, 02:20 AM)TS Aquinas Wrote: Textbook tu quoque.

Not at all.  I wasn't suggesting jovan's position is wrong, which is necessary for it to be a true tu quoque.  I was calling him out for being an ass by snarkily asking a question he already knew the answer to.
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