My opinion about Pope Francis
#41
I am from Buenos Aires, Argentina.
I don't like Bergoglio but hope Francisco will be different.

I don't think people see the Tridentine Mass as white, in fact Bergoglio is an ethnic Italian and many Argentines are white, the issue is they see it as something Snob, people who  give too much importance to beauty, something like that.
I disagree with that, but that is the general idea, and Bergoglio is not a very liturgically sensitive person.

I don't think he will undo what Benedict did, also because Benedict is still alive, he will not contradict him, he will leave it up to the local Bishops to decide if they allow tridentine masses or not, so it will depend on whether you have a good Bishop or not.

Buenos Aires has a big traditional catholic community, and no traditional mass appart from SSPX. Bergoglio authorized 2 churches in 2007 but the priests didn't like doing it, and ended up mixing Novus Ordo and Tridentine mass. They went from having 100 people the first time they did it, to cancelling the tridentine masses when people stopped showing up because they didn't like hybrid masses by unwilling priests.
In the other big cities of Argentina (and some small ones), and in the suburbs of Buenos Aires there are official, well done tridentine masses, it is only a problem of Buenos Aires, the city in which Bergoglio was bishop.

I still think he could be a good Pope, it is probable that he will not do anything with regards to liturgy, left everything as Benedict left it, and just dedicate himself to clean the church from sex and financial scandals. His job is doing what Benedict felt he could not do with regards to that secret report.

He indeed lives like a poor person, not like a Prince. Many traddies in Argentina who like the idea of Bishops as powerful princes or Kings, like noblemen, find it horrible to have a Pope who took the subway and has a public transportation card.
Reply
#42
(03-15-2013, 09:37 PM)m.PR Wrote: Don't be silly. Being unimpressed with the remarks does not mean that we think Pope Francis is without his problems (did you read my last post??). It only means that we think Burdensome1's portrayal does not correctly describe the Church in Latin America.

It is just that it seemed like the "I'm a Latino, and I'm unimpressed with Burdensome1's comment" people were piling up, and it feels like there's lots of implications of racism. 

Yeah, I felt you had a good in-depth thing to say m.PR.  I dunno.  Lots of factionalism is occurring on this and other forums.  It's the forming divisions that are really the second big news story, here. 


Reply
#43
Thanks, justlurking. 

I think I'm beginning to understand another reason why there's so much resistance to the TLM where I live.  I'd never thought of it as anything elitist, in fact, just the opposite.  It's good to understand something of the other side. 

I see from your first posts that you're too young to know first-hand what happened when the new Mass was introduced.  I'd be interested in knowing how the traditional Mass came to be thought of this way.  Do you know if the TLM was the only Roman rite before the 1970s, or were there Masses in the vernacular before then?  And when the NO was introduced, did it take over the churches like it seems to have everywhere else?

Thanks again! 
Reply
#44
(03-15-2013, 09:45 PM)justlurking Wrote: I am from Buenos Aires, Argentina. . .

and in the suburbs of Buenos Aires there are official, well done tridentine masses, it is only a problem of Buenos Aires, the city in which Bergoglio was bishop.

Is Buenos Aires like European cities, where people like to live in the central city, and only the poor or low middle class live in the suburbs?

edit: Yes, I think this is relevant.
Reply
#45
(03-15-2013, 02:44 PM)libby Wrote:
(03-15-2013, 01:39 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:
(03-15-2013, 12:38 PM)m.PR Wrote: By my count there are three actual Laitn Americans who have posted in this thread, and none of us were so impressed by the OP as the non-Latin Americans. Hmmm.

Ah!  We must be racists!  How righteous of you to point that out!  Man, we're jerks!

She made an observation....?

...so you screech racism, sarcasm, and other signs of ignorance?

but, who knows... what would m.PR know anyway?

I've found that if you really want to know how things are, you should sit back, watch teevee, and make your informed decisions that way.

No sense in actually taking the experience of a born and bred Catholic Latin American into account.

Now if you'll excuse me, I think I'll go inform my blonde, blue-eyed Cuban family that we're not white...I had no idea!
   


:pigeons:

Slanty writing, FTW!!!!!!

Reason seems to be returning to the forum.

Reason must increase, Crunchies must decrease. QED 
Reply
#46
(03-15-2013, 09:45 PM)justlurking Wrote: I am from Buenos Aires, Argentina.
I don't like Bergoglio but hope Francisco will be different.

I don't think people see the Tridentine Mass as white, in fact Bergoglio is an ethnic Italian and many Argentines are white, the issue is they see it as something Snob, people who  give too much importance to beauty, something like that.
I disagree with that, but that is the general idea, and Bergoglio is not a very liturgically sensitive person.

I don't think he will undo what Benedict did, also because Benedict is still alive, he will not contradict him, he will leave it up to the local Bishops to decide if they allow tridentine masses or not, so it will depend on whether you have a good Bishop or not.

Buenos Aires has a big traditional catholic community, and no traditional mass appart from SSPX. Bergoglio authorized 2 churches in 2007 but the priests didn't like doing it, and ended up mixing Novus Ordo and Tridentine mass. They went from having 100 people the first time they did it, to cancelling the tridentine masses when people stopped showing up because they didn't like hybrid masses by unwilling priests.
In the other big cities of Argentina (and some small ones), and in the suburbs of Buenos Aires there are official, well done tridentine masses, it is only a problem of Buenos Aires, the city in which Bergoglio was bishop.

I still think he could be a good Pope, it is probable that he will not do anything with regards to liturgy, left everything as Benedict left it, and just dedicate himself to clean the church from sex and financial scandals. His job is doing what Benedict felt he could not do with regards to that secret report.

He indeed lives like a poor person, not like a Prince. Many traddies in Argentina who like the idea of Bishops as powerful princes or Kings, like noblemen, find it horrible to have a Pope who took the subway and has a public transportation card.

Thanks for this post.  Local knowledge is always good.

What is his character like?  To sort out the Curia, the Vatican bank and the sex scandals he is going to need to be a very tough guy.  B16 couldn't do it and he was an insider.
Reply
#47
(03-15-2013, 10:30 PM)DrBombay Wrote:
(03-15-2013, 02:44 PM)libby Wrote:
(03-15-2013, 01:39 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:
(03-15-2013, 12:38 PM)m.PR Wrote: By my count there are three actual Laitn Americans who have posted in this thread, and none of us were so impressed by the OP as the non-Latin Americans. Hmmm.

Ah!  We must be racists!  How righteous of you to point that out!  Man, we're jerks!

She made an observation....?

...so you screech racism, sarcasm, and other signs of ignorance?

but, who knows... what would m.PR know anyway?

I've found that if you really want to know how things are, you should sit back, watch teevee, and make your informed decisions that way.

No sense in actually taking the experience of a born and bred Catholic Latin American into account.

Now if you'll excuse me, I think I'll go inform my blonde, blue-eyed Cuban family that we're not white...I had no idea!
   


:pigeons:

Slanty writing, FTW!!!!!!

Reason seems to be returning to the forum.

Reason must increase, Crunchies must decrease. QED 

I'd know those italics anywhere!
Reply
#48
(03-15-2013, 10:00 PM)per_passionem_eius Wrote: Thanks, justlurking. 

I think I'm beginning to understand another reason why there's so much resistance to the TLM where I live.  I'd never thought of it as anything elitist, in fact, just the opposite.  It's good to understand something of the other side. 

I see from your first posts that you're too young to know first-hand what happened when the new Mass was introduced.  I'd be interested in knowing how the traditional Mass came to be thought of this way.  Do you know if the TLM was the only Roman rite before the 1970s, or were there Masses in the vernacular before then?  And when the NO was introduced, did it take over the churches like it seems to have everywhere else?

Thanks again! 


It depends of the zone. For example, many Churches still have High Altars, Paintings, Statues and Rails (not widescale wreckovations). Some places have EWTN style NO, or 1965 Masses. As I said earlier, the 70's style was imported. Hispanic America has a big Baroque imprint. I think that Puebla and Medellín conferences marked the beginning of bad Liturgies and ugly Architecture. Also, more or less, was the decade when progressive theology was brought from Spain.

That, plus cultural marxism and liberalism, could be factors that influence the perceptions of some people regarding Liturgy.

But I think most people associate Latin with the past, without giving too much thought to it, also there is not a lot of emotional involvement, be it for, or against.
Reply
#49
(03-15-2013, 09:34 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:
(03-15-2013, 09:03 PM)MorganHiver Wrote: My father is from Spain and my wife's parents are from Mexico. We were not impressed.

Good to know all the Latinos and Spaniards are unimpressed with Burdensome1's observations. 

Ya got that, everyone?  Love this pope!  Love him!  Love him, damn you.  They do, so clearly you should.  How could you not adore his humility, you pieces of excrement?  You will go to hell if you do not fall in line and adore this pope!  Any criticism of his ways is racist and unimpressive!  He is humble!  HUMBLE!  And Latinos are not impressed with you assholes who dare question him!

By the way, did I mention Pope Francis is humble?

I think it has to do with the portrayal of Hispanic America Catholicism and culture, and not with Pope Francis.
Reply
#50
One of the first things he did was to go down to the hotel where he had been staying at and pay his bill. I like him
:) :) :)
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)