Fr. Z's Thoughts on Pope's First Mass
#1
Saw the following article on Fr. Z's blog. I thought he made some interesting observations:

Conclave concludes: Mass in the Sistine Chapel with Cardinals
Posted on 14 March 2013 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

His Holiness Pope Francis has begun his Mass in the Sistine Chapel with all the Cardinals. Thus we bring to an end the Conclave rites, though the conclave is officially over now. Some shots and comments (for as long a my battery lasts!).

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Well… that’s a rather abrupt change of style.

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It is always sad to see an versus populum altar in front of something so grand.

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The Holy Father had a real problem with the Latin Confiteor. But wonders when the last time was that he actually pronounced the Novus Ordo Confiteor. He is speaking all the prayers.

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Organ in the Sistine chapel…. o tempora, o mores.

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In the Sistina the Sistine sounds pretty good!

I was amused to hear in the 1st reading from Isaiah, “the stone that was rejected by the builders has become the cornerstone”. Ironic, in that it is said that he was a strong second at the beginning of the 2005 conclave. Of course, His Holiness wanted to do something else with that passage.

One of the bidding prayers:

“For His Holiness Benedict XVI: may he serve the Church in hiddenness with a life dedicated to prayer and meditation.”

To my ear, the Italian was not well worded, “Per Sua Santita Benedeto XVI: serva la Chiesa nel nascondimento con una vita dedicata alla preghiera e alla meditazione.” I asked a couple Italians. They thought it sounded odd, though we all knew what it meant.

Here is my summation of this first Mass, which we must admit is a unique occasion in a pontificate. What’s the phrase about “first impressions”?

First, I thought the abrupt imposition of a new style was not the best approach.

Understand this: my disagreement is not based merely on the fact that the ceremony or style was simpler, but that it was simpler in this moment and in this place. This was the end of a conclave to elect a Pope, with the College of Cardinals, in the Sistine Chapel. There is a certain decorum that needs to be observed, consonant with the occasion and those present. There are moments when all the Roman tradition must be in full play. There will be times in the parishes in the suburbs of Rome when something else can be done. But this was the moment to go high.

That said, I was struck but a a point in the sermon:

“Chi non prega al Signore, prega al diavolo. If you don’t pray to Christ, you pray to the devil.”

There’s a carefully phased ecumenical statement!

This is the same man who, in the face of unnatural marriage proponents in Argentina said that same-sex marriage discriminates against children.

The man’s got a backbone.

So, it is going to take Francis a while to learn who he is as Roman Pontiff.

He won’t just be able to go around or do exactly as he pleases, even as he desires to shift this or that or change style of emphasis. He has o get used to his surroundings. I don’t blame him on a human level for reverting to personal taste in such a terrifying moment of his life. He is clearly a man who has had authority thrust on him at different stages.

Continue to pray for him as we all make adjustments.


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#2
Quote:“Chi non prega al Signore, prega al diavolo. If you don’t pray to Christ, you pray to the devil.”

There’s a carefully phased ecumenical statement!

I think I'm starting to like this guy!
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#3
Video of the Mass is here:


With all due respect, he seemed like a man out of his element. His plain mitre seems out of place (looks to be the same one used at this Missa de Ninos (see around the 13 minute mark):


And he seems to not know what to do with someone with the liturgical expertise of Guido Marini at his right hand. His Latin doesn't seem all that hot (he seemed to stumble through the Confiteor, and when he gave the final blessing, he put "Holy Spirit" in the genitive when it should have been nominative), and he didn't even use the Roman Canon. Liturgically, I am not optimistic, unless he has the humility to receive the liturgical advice and direction of Monsignor Marini.

Also, Fr. Z appeared to quote him incorrectly. The quote from the sermon was: "When one does not profess Jesus Christ - I recall the phrase of Leon Bloy – 'Whoever does not pray to God, prays to the devil.' When one does not profess Jesus Christ, one professes the worldliness of the devil."
Not quite as strong as Fr. Z made it out to be. It does leave some wiggle room if one wants to be an ecumaniac. Still, it's a strong and laudable statement.
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#4
(03-14-2013, 05:40 PM)rbjmartin Wrote: Not quite as strong as Fr. Z made it out to be. It does leave some wiggle room if one wants to be an ecumaniac. Still, it's a strong and laudable statement.

The whole sermon was excellent and I have been waiting for a single trad to find something to complain about it.  "if we do not confess Jesus Christ, nothing will avail. We will become a pitiful NGO, but not the Church, the Bride of Christ." I especially liked the part where he said "In fact, the Pinocchio mass had a really solid sermon using Pinocchio to warn children of the falsity of magic and that only Christ can give us a real heart.

I am not saying he's a traditional slam dunk, but there are some things that seem positive (such as him visiting the tomb of Saint Pius V today). 
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#5
(03-14-2013, 05:40 PM)rbjmartin Wrote: Video of the Mass is here:

Bloke receiving communion at 1:11:17 made me laugh.

Make your freaking mind up sunshine!!!!
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#6
(03-14-2013, 05:45 PM)Someone1776 Wrote:
(03-14-2013, 05:40 PM)rbjmartin Wrote: Not quite as strong as Fr. Z made it out to be. It does leave some wiggle room if one wants to be an ecumaniac. Still, it's a strong and laudable statement.

The whole sermon was excellent and I have been waiting for a single trad to find something to complain about it.  "if we do not confess Jesus Christ, nothing will avail. We will become a pitiful NGO, but not the Church, the Bride of Christ." I especially liked the part where he said "In fact, the Pinocchio mass had a really solid sermon using Pinocchio to warn children of the falsity of magic and that only Christ can give us a real heart.

I am not saying he's a traditional slam dunk, but there are some things that seem positive (such as him visiting the tomb of Saint Pius V today). 

I don't disagree. I just think Fr. Z made it to sound stronger than it was. I'm seeing a lot of rose-colored glasses among some Catholics. I do think it was a very good sermon. But there's no need to be over-optimistic or read more into his words than what is really there.
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#7
(03-14-2013, 05:50 PM)rbjmartin Wrote: But there's no need to be over-optimistic or read more into his words than what is really there.

I think people are way to quick in jumping to conclusions what kind of a Pope he's going to be. Few of us had ever heard of his thus guy, and it seems almost everyone is trying to read the tea leaves to figure him out. It makes sense that we are, because we want to know more about the man that leads our Church.

There's a lot of baggage that is concerning, but I really don't have anything to complain about the first 24 hours.  In fact, I really liked his two public appearances so far. After Benedict's homilies that seemed to get lost in the clouds and in abstract themes that no one could make sense of, it's nice to see a Pope repeating basic Catholic beliefs in a simple and direct way. I hope he continues on this track. 

(*hides*). 
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#8
In my experience leopards don't change their spots.

We've been through this optimism and hopium overdosing with JP2.  There was no internet back then, no dirt on the guy, and absolutely no reason not to think a Polish Cardinal who had to deal with Commies would not be an EXCELLENT Pope and a friend of Traditionalists.  Hardline SSPX Trads were super-excited about his appointment.  I was 11 and I remember it well.  My mother put a large picture of him up in our dining room.  We all know how that turned out.

Then we had B16 who had 25 years in the Curia and knew where all the skeletons were buried.  The Rottweiler, God's Rottweiler.  The German Shepherd.  Turned out to be like the Lion in the Wizard of Oz.  90% of Trads were still excited when he was appointed.

Now we have a man who kneels down to be prayed over by Protestants, has Pinocchio and Tow Town Children's Masses with happy clappg crappy dancers, has restricted the TLM in his own diocese and celebrates Hannukah by praying with Jews and Pagans.  And this is just what we discovered in the first 24 hours.

If I jump to conclusions, they are jumped at with 30 years of seeing what people with less dirt under their fingernails actually did as Pope.

The definition of madness is doing the same thing and expecting a different result.
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#9
(03-14-2013, 06:13 PM)ggreg Wrote: In my experience leopards don't change their spots.

We've been through this optimism and hopium overdosing with JP2.  There was no internet back then, no dirt on the guy, and absolutely no reason not to think a Polish Cardinal who had to deal with Commies would not be an EXCELLENT Pope and a friend of Traditionalists.  Hardline SSPX Trads were super-excited about his appointment.  I was 11 and I remember it well.   My mother put a large picture of him up in our dining room.  We all know how that turned out.

Then we had B16 who had 25 years in the Curia and knew where all the skeletons were buried.  The Rottweiler, God's Rottweiler.  The German Shepherd.  Turned out to be like the Lion in the Wizard of Oz.  90% of Trads were still excited when he was appointed.

Now we have a man who kneels down to be prayed over by Protestants, has Pinocchio and Tow Town Children's Masses with happy clappg crappy dancers, has restricted the TLM in his own diocese and celebrates Hannukah by praying with Jews and Pagans.  And this is just what we discovered in the first 24 hours.

If I jump to conclusions, they are jumped at with 30 years of seeing what people with less dirt under their fingernails actually did as Pope.

The definition of madness is doing the same thing and expecting a different result.

QFT

+1
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#10
I'm on board with the Holy Father's stance on moral issues and I'm inspired by his personal holiness, but I think, as traditionalists, we're in for a rough ride when it comes to his approach to the liturgy and what looks like a lack of understanding for the importance of the dignity of Petrine office. For me, this is not a sign of humility but the lack thereof because, as rbjmartin mentioned, those dignities are not really his to do away with.  They belong to the Petrine office, that rock the Church is built on and which the gates of hell will not destroy. To me, he is my Holy Father and my Vicar of Christ, even if he would prefer I call him Jorge.
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